Tips, corrections, suggestions needed for first 3-way build

[NewGuy781]

Hello! I am somewhat of a newbie to this Audio DIY but I have been reading a bunch and still going at it

So I have decided to get into a “learning journey” and I learn best by doing, so I want to attempt to build a couple of 3-way passive speakers for this, and I would greatly appreciate any help, critics, corrections, suggestions, etc to take on this.

Please if I have posted in the wrong section or if I should “sub-divide” my questions into different sections please let me know

Roughly speaking as initial “goals”/limitations I was thinking about: 3-way speakers (Low=max 8”, Mid=max 4.5”, High=max 2.5”), 87-90db sensitivity (or higher if doesnt break my piggy bank), 8ohm, down to 40-35hz (give or take) and high anywhere close to 20k. I have a subwoofer already so I know that the speakers dont necessarily need to go so low since the sub will specialize in that, but why not go down to 35hz if my pocket allows it
I am aware that 2-way is more advisable for a newbie, but humor me please, i like a challenge ... and I love how floor standing 3-ways look and sound

Just a quick note before bombing with questions Im in a learning phase so Im sorry in advance for possible dumb questions; also, I am in a student in a budget and Im expecting screwing up here and there, so I would appreciate saving the “expensive suggestions”

For this project I dont want to build every single component from scratch (meaning I dont want to design/build the crossover in this first project). I basically want to buy the parts and put them together with a custom box which im going to build. Yes, I know there are kits but they are expensive and I want to do my own box/design since I have access to plenty free lumber and want to choose components for learning purposes.

So I am having some questions regarding the proper matching of the components in order to decide what to buy. The box part I have read so much and feel confident about but of course I probably have more to learn/correct on the way.

Keeping in consideration that its a 1st design on a budget learning journey, I have these questions to start with:

1- Crossover Related
What considerations are important when matching a passive* crossover to speakers. What specifications do I have to look at and compare to match them properly?
Does each speaker have to be matched in some specific way to the crossover, or is it more relevant to match a certain speaker better/as opposed to the others?

Phase corrections; is this more about the placement of the speaker on the box or something I should look at when choosing the crossover.

I would really appreciate some buying guidance because I see 3-way crossovers from $20 to $80 and more. Comparing a $20 and a $55, apart from the lower end of the crossover points (800/5,000 Hz and 625/5000 Hz respectively), they both are 2nd order, 8 ohm, and seem quite the same to my untrained eye (apart from “extra perks” like being able to hook up a 4ohm woofer too, which is not what I want anyway). So considering that the mow-mid-high speakers all properly cover the ranges at those crossover points, what is “special” about a crossover that is twice as expensive as another in this case? Do I gain anything at all for my goal by paying twice?

I read that a roll-off of 12db/octave is ideal and makes things easier in the XO department, so if I see a crossover that states: Filter= W 12dB / oct, M 6dB / oct, T12dB / oct; Frequency point= 850 / 4800HZ… Does that M 6dB make it a bad XO right off the bat or not really since its in the mids?

2- Speaker/Driver Related
My current receiver says is Minimum 65watt RMS power so thats the minimum (apart from 0 at stand-by) its guaranteed to give according to manufacturer; so should I get speakers that are rated 65watt RMS or above? Or would it just be good to get +65watt if later i would want to upgrade my amp?

Should all speakers be the same xWatt power rating?
Ex: 2 x 65watt tweeters, 2 x 65watt Mids, 2 x 65watt Woofers
Or are tweeters and mids supposed to have lower watts?

3- Box Related
The cabinet I want to do will consist of separate boxes to divide woofer (on vented box) from mids&highs (on sealed box/es), so if I take this approach do I still need phase correction? i.e. Should I put these separate boxes a little behind the front baffle of the woofer or is this type of correction done only when all speakers are in the same cabinet/baffle? Is this something that is also addressed with the choosing of the crossover?
Also, if putting the high and mids in a separate box affects/helps phase correction, will it also help in anyway the choosing/matching of the crossover?

4- Online Calculators
I have found more online box calculators than anything else so far in this journey which is good, and bad for a newbie cause it confuses me. So could I get some pointers to good/reliable online calculators please? And related question, is there a (big?) difference between a subwoofer box calculator and a speaker box calculator? (Im guessing this last one is for woofers and not subwoofers…?)
If you want to recommend a simulator, something Mac compatible please (im sorry, I know, im sorry, dont have another option for now, and google is giving me nil.. but I’ll try to get my hands on a pc at some point hopefully).

So I really hope some of you could enlighten me a bit on these things!
I have looked around (newbie style, as im not too acquainted to this forum yet) and there is a ton of info but lots is specific to different projects than what I have in mind, and to be fair I have found lots that is helping me too, so Im open to links to threads addressing my questions, outside links too, or straight up answers would be awesome as well!

Im not including links to components I have been looking at mainly because I obviously need guidance so I might be linking really dumb combos So if you know about and can suggest links to components that might fit to my project I would be amazingly grateful!! Also links to good online shops in Europe or that ship here. I know about "the google internet" thing but it tends to be very random and I would like some good/reliable/known shops.

Lastly, Im sorry for my newbie kilometric post, but I figured I should ask as much as I can from the get go

Thanks!

 

[paulys55]

If i am understanding you, you plan to buy a pre-built crossover and connect it to some drivers in a box you are building. If you are working on woodworking skills, this might be a good idea. But the chance that it will sound right are slim. Better to find a cheap kit that has been professionally designed or at least by someone who has done the work. You are not learning anything by buying a pre-built crossover and slapping some speakers in a box except for the carpentry part. Either buy a kit or do some homework on crossover design. Not trying to be rude, just trying to save you time and money.

 

[eriksquires]

Hey NewGuy,



I made the LM-1 specifically as a teaching exercise. You can download the measurement and simulation files, and examine how the crossover parts interact for free.



A Speaker Maker's Journey: The LM-1 Bookshelf Version


You will also find articles on crossover basics there too.



Best,




Erik

 

[jReave]

For this project I dont want to build every single component from scratch (meaning I dont want to design/build the crossover in this first project). I basically want to buy the parts and put them together with a custom box which im going to build. Yes, I know there are kits but they are expensive and I want to do my own box/design since I have access to plenty free lumber and want to choose components for learning purposes.

There are hundreds and hundreds of free designs out there besides "expensive" kits. Given that you don't want to dabble with the xo but instead want to put more energy into cabinet design and construction, I concur with paulys55 that a proven design is a better way for you to go.

Here's what I think would be some good reading for you:

undefinition/diy-faqs-provendesigns

Maybe also have a look at more of the topics to the right at Paul's site, here.

Finally, there's more here than you need right now but it will answer some of your questions: So you want to design your own speakers from scratch

Although it doesn't meet all of your criteria (driver sizes in particular), I would suggest you have a close look at Paul Carmody's Tarkus. The drivers are inexpensive and excellent value and easily available in Europe (I think), plus there is some freedom to play around with the cabinet design as long as you keep certain parameters the same.

 

[LineSource]

3- Box Related
The cabinet I want to do will consist of separate boxes to divide woofer (on vented box) from mids&highs (on sealed box/es),

Do you want to build separate cabinets for the T-M and the W:
--- so you can use the separate T-M for lenghtly on-desk or book-shelf placement?
-OR- because two boxes are easier to move around
-OR- because you believe two separate boxes will be easier to build?
-OR- because you are interested in educational experiments

A single cabinet will be
-- easier to build,
-- lower cost,
-- smaller because the woofer uses the extra volume behind sealed TM box,
-- more coherent sound stage because woofer is only a few inches below midrange
-----To best mimic a point source, with a 250Hz crossover the C-to-C of the M-to-W should be < 13"

Example: 8+5+1
Truncated Pyramid: Drivers + crossover L-R-C ~ $250/speaker

Sonja from Visaton diy info

ANASTASIA
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers

 

[bogdan2011]

I'd suggest investigating active crossovers if you're going 3 way.
Also, I haven't seen many 3 way systems that use a sub. I wanted to build something similar but since I have a pretty good sub, the investment (in a pair of 8 in woofers) would be pointless.
So you might be better using the sub with a 2 way using a pair of 6 in woofers and tweeters.

 

[NewGuy781]

If i am understanding you, you plan to buy a pre-built crossover and connect it to some drivers in a box you are building. If you are working on woodworking skills, this might be a good idea. But the chance that it will sound right are slim. Better to find a cheap kit that has been professionally designed or at least by someone who has done the work. You are not learning anything by buying a pre-built crossover and slapping some speakers in a box except for the carpentry part. Either buy a kit or do some homework on crossover design. Not trying to be rude, just trying to save you time and money.

Hello! Haha No worries I didn't perceive you as rude, more like correcting me, and that's one of the things that I am after, so thanks for that!
So, I did not think that the XO was so important, I mean I knew it was up to a point (and after that point I thought it was more of a picky choosy thing hardcore audio ppl had), but it seems like it is THE heart or brains of the project, given that if I don't design it I'm not learning.
It seemed to me that since they sell them no-kit and pre-built then I figured that it wasn't as imperative to design it myself and that I could learn to match it to the speakers (which is why I asked for tips to matching) ... Obviously I'm wrong
But then I dont get it, why do they even sell them pre-built and not in a kit? If it's not the way to go then I'm kinda lost in that sense.
I hope you can enlighten me in this too.
You have some links to cheap kits? I have Googled but I get to these "half made sites" and I wouldn't feel comfortable putting credit card details on there
That being said, I'm not giving up on the xo designing; I just want to see the alternatives.
Thanks!

 

[cspieker]

You've gotten good advice, but I'll try to add a few more points.

First, give us you actual budget.


- Crossover Related
What considerations are important when matching a passive* crossover to speakers. What specifications do I have to look at and compare to match them properly?
Does each speaker have to be matched in some specific way to the crossover, or is it more relevant to match a certain speaker better/as opposed to the others?


in short, it's soooo complicated to design a passive crossover properly, DO NOT use a stock crossover. 99% chance that it won't sound right. Either find a design to use or if you are interested in learning, use a minidsp to make an active setup. That's still complicated and you'll have to learn a ton to make it work right and buy a umik and learn to use REW software for measuring, but at least you can improve it as you learn easily, unlike a passive crossover.


Phase corrections; is this more about the placement of the speaker on the box or something I should look at when choosing the crossover.

this is mostly in the crossover, but understanding it is a long process. Another reason to use someone else's design.

 

[cspieker]

Should I put these separate boxes a little behind the front baffle of the woofer or is this type of correction done only when all speakers are in the same cabinet/baffle? Is this something that is also addressed with the choosing of the crossover?
Also, if putting the high and mids in a separate box affects/helps phase correction, will it also help in anyway the choosing/matching of the crossover?


phase, physical alignment and crossover are all related and affect each other. It all has to be simulated ahead of time in software for a passive crossover. This is a huge reason why off the shelf crossovers are a bad idea. If you do an active crossover with a minidsp, then delay can be easily set and tweaked digitally, but learning how will still take some learning. If this will be your last build, use someones design, if you are interested in continuing the hobby, use the minidsp and keep learning. Setting back the individual dribers will cause sound to bounce off the edges of the other cabinets, Messing things up, so it's not often done. Read up on cabinet diffraction.

 

[cspieker]

Should all speakers be the same xWatt power rating?
Ex: 2 x 65watt tweeters, 2 x 65watt Mids, 2 x 65watt Woofers
Or are tweeters and mids supposed to have lower watts?


the tweeter should handle 15-20 watts, the mid 35-50, the woofer should have the 65 watt rating, but xmax is just as important, you will check max spl at full xmax (how far the cone can move) in the simulation software for woofer and mid,
I recommend winISD, a box calculator or sub calculator are the same thing. Keep in mind the power ratings are not very important on the tweeter and mid unless you will be running them very loud with music that's loud all the time, classical for instance has soft passages that let drivers cool, dance/electronic is loud all the time. Hope this is helpful, good luck!

 

[NewGuy781]

There are hundreds and hundreds of free designs out there besides "expensive" kits. Given that you don't want to dabble with the xo but instead want to put more energy into cabinet design and construction, I concur with paulys55 that a proven design is a better way for you to go.

Here's what I think would be some good reading for you:

undefinition/diy-faqs-provendesigns

Maybe also have a look at more of the topics to the right at Paul's site, here.

Finally, there's more here than you need right now but it will answer some of your questions: So you want to design your own speakers from scratch

Although it doesn't meet all of your criteria (driver sizes in particular), I would suggest you have a close look at Paul Carmody's Tarkus. The drivers are inexpensive and excellent value and easily available in Europe (I think), plus there is some freedom to play around with the cabinet design as long as you keep certain parameters the same.

Hello!
LOL that dialogue was good and I actually feel like that "lets simplify dude"

Yes I saw that "So you want to design your own speakers from scratch" its quite good and I am learning tons from it!

Those Tarkus seem awesome, I love rock and the post really sells that design quite good! Im not married to the sizes, those numbers I placed were only rough because they are what I have in some old speakers, but smaller better ones are of course good and very welcome.
The crossover thing, as I mentioned to the first reply, apparently I was quite wrong/confused about. I do want to learn and I have underestimated the crossover.
You know how sometimes hardcore enthusiasts are veeeery veeeeery picky about certain details of another detail of a detail, and which might not be the biggest concern in the world to most/other "average" ppl (in this case audible)? Well I thought the crossover was one of those since they sell them pre-built... ooops, that was a bad assumption

Could you direct me to some reputable, trusted sites where I can find cheaper kits? I dont know if its my location (maybe a vpn would help?) or Im not using good keywords, but I can't find anything under 1000-1500 EUR (+$1000)

Thanks!

 

[Draki]

You can do worse than this: Strassacker: Loudspeakerkits (DIY kits)

Search for : "Scan by side"

Or this: Lautsprecher Intertechnik - Shop

 

[bogdan2011]

Should all speakers be the same xWatt power rating?
Ex: 2 x 65watt tweeters, 2 x 65watt Mids, 2 x 65watt Woofers
Or are tweeters and mids supposed to have lower watts?


the tweeter should handle 15-20 watts, the mid 35-50, the woofer should have the 65 watt rating, but xmax is just as important, you will check max spl at full xmax (how far the cone can move) in the simulation software for woofer and mid,
I recommend winISD, a box calculator or sub calculator are the same thing. Keep in mind the power ratings are not very important on the tweeter and mid unless you will be running them very loud with music that's loud all the time, classical for instance has soft passages that let drivers cool, dance/electronic is loud all the time. Hope this is helpful, good luck!

Speakers should not have very different sensitivities, because with a passive crossover you can always go down in sensitivity but not up.
The power needed goes down as the frequency go up. So you would probably have a 100W woofer with a 50W mid and a 20W tweeter.

 

[jReave]

Could you direct me to some reputable, trusted sites where I can find cheaper kits? I dont know if its my location (maybe a vpn would help?) or Im not using good keywords, but I can't find anything under 1000-1500 EUR (+$1000)

I'm not the best for info about Europe. You've got 2 good suggestions so far and maybe others can chime in with some more.

But you'll want to check out what drivers are available and their cost as you look through kits and other build projects. Here are some other reputable dealers in Europe that I'm aware of:

Falcon Acoustics | The Leading DIY Speaker Parts and Kit Supplier since 1972
AUDIO-HI.FI, Loudspeaker shop
RumoH - Caps, Coils and Speakers
[URL="https://www.audiohobby.eu/en/5510-speaker-drivers"]http://audio.nl/Aprodview.asp?type=logos[/URL]

If your budget is tight, Peerless SDS and SLS and SB Acoustics PFC series offer very good value. Dayton drivers do as well (the RS series is probably a step above those just mentioned) but are usually a bit more expensive in Europe than here in North America.

I wanted to build something similar but since I have a pretty good sub, the investment (in a pair of 8 in woofers) would be pointless.
So you might be better using the sub with a 2 way using a pair of 6 in woofers and tweeters.

This isn't a bad idea if money is quite tight. Most newbies don't really consider how fast the cost of the actual xo parts can add up. Or the fact that a 3-way xo is generally going to be more than twice as expensive as a 2-way xo. Going with a cheaper 2-way then may allow you use slightly better and more expensive drivers instead of spending some of that money on a 3-way xo. Maybe something like Paul Carmody's Amiga. It's also possible to run the woofer in a 3-way like the Tarkus sealed in a smaller box and so still need a sub for the lowest frquencies. But suit yourself of course.

Other sources for proven builds:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects (though Troel's doesn't do a lot of cheaper builds but it's a great resource for learning)
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy (mentioned previously)
http://speakerdesignworks.com/index.html
http://www.divine-audio.com/
https://www.rob-elder.com/LouC/speakers/SpeakThumb/Gallery.html
http://projectgallery.parts-express.com/category/speaker-projects/tower-floor/
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/30395-links-to-existing-diy-speaker-designs

That should keep you busy for a while and hopefully should help.

 

[NewGuy781]

Should I put these separate boxes a little behind the front baffle of the woofer or is this type of correction done only when all speakers are in the same cabinet/baffle? Is this something that is also addressed with the choosing of the crossover?
Also, if putting the high and mids in a separate box affects/helps phase correction, will it also help in anyway the choosing/matching of the crossover?


phase, physical alignment and crossover are all related and affect each other. It all has to be simulated ahead of time in software for a passive crossover. This is a huge reason why off the shelf crossovers are a bad idea. If you do an active crossover with a minidsp, then delay can be easily set and tweaked digitally, but learning how will still take some learning. If this will be your last build, use someones design, if you are interested in continuing the hobby, use the minidsp and keep learning. Setting back the individual dribers will cause sound to bounce off the edges of the other cabinets, Messing things up, so it's not often done. Read up on cabinet diffraction.

Thank you for your insights! They really clear out a few points I had doubts with
Regarding the miniDSP and cross over, I looked around for a while but im still a little fuzzy about it. On of the things I found was this: Digital Crossover basics

First some clarification: as far as I understood, for moving to dsp, I would need an amp as well to connect to speakers, and the dsp to my receiver, right?
Is dsp the same as active crossover? I ask mainly because I see that they are spoken about separately but they seem to have the same "set up"- the device itself and an amplifier to speakers.

Second budget: unless I managed to find the most expensive/comercial one out there, this thing alone took like 90-95% of my budget . So if +$250 is the average prices for a dsp, and then if I need to buy an amp as well, then I guess it's a no go for me on the active and/or dsp way

Right now my decisions are primarily based on budget because im still studying, but as soon as I get a "real job" Im going to build more and better for sure since then I won't have the budget constraint.

Even if I go passive this time, it won't be my last build for sure, I'm enjoying learning the details, despite how overwhelming it can be at times

 

[Old bones]

It looks like we are both at about the same level here seeking advice. One thing I have learned (the hard way) is that buying a ready made crossover just isn't going to bring satisfaction. Like you, I cannot understand why they are even sold, such is the near impossibility that they will work in any useful way. When I connected my drivers to the off the peg crossovers there was so little sound coming from the mids and tweets that I thought they were not connected. To design your own will take a lot of study and a lot of involvement with design software to bring all the components in to some kind of harmony within the enclosure. Change any one thing and the whole result is affected. The early advice suggesting you just buy a kit of a proven design is probably good advice. The result will be predictable and most likely pleasing. But in this respect we are both in the same boat. The designs for a 3-way floor stander use expensive drivers and are way beyond our budget. I am currently trying to copy a well known commercial design on another thread but since none of the original drivers are still available I have been wasting money on replacements that are not working as expected. I'm not giving up just yet. There are well-meaning people here who have been there before us and are trying to give us useful answers.

 

[bogdan2011]

It looks like we are both at about the same level here seeking advice. One thing I have learned (the hard way) is that buying a ready made crossover just isn't going to bring satisfaction. Like you, I cannot understand why they are even sold, such is the near impossibility that they will work in any useful way. When I connected my drivers to the off the peg crossovers there was so little sound coming from the mids and tweets that I thought they were not connected. To design your own will take a lot of study and a lot of involvement with design software to bring all the components in to some kind of harmony within the enclosure. Change any one thing and the whole result is affected. The early advice suggesting you just buy a kit of a proven design is probably good advice. The result will be predictable and most likely pleasing. But in this respect we are both in the same boat. The designs for a 3-way floor stander use expensive drivers and are way beyond our budget. I am currently trying to copy a well known commercial design on another thread but since none of the original drivers are still available I have been wasting money on replacements that are not working as expected. I'm not giving up just yet. There are well-meaning people here who have been there before us and are trying to give us useful answers.

That's why I advocate for active crossovers.
If you do your design well, you can pretty much throw a standard crossover at your speakers and the satisfaction is immediate.

 

[NewGuy781]

Do you want to build separate cabinets for the T-M and the W:
--- so you can use the separate T-M for lenghtly on-desk or book-shelf placement?
-OR- because two boxes are easier to move around
-OR- because you believe two separate boxes will be easier to build?
-OR- because you are interested in educational experiments

A single cabinet will be
-- easier to build,
-- lower cost,
-- smaller because the woofer uses the extra volume behind sealed TM box,
-- more coherent sound stage because woofer is only a few inches below midrange
-----To best mimic a point source, with a 250Hz crossover the C-to-C of the M-to-W should be < 13"

Example: 8+5+1
Truncated Pyramid: Drivers + crossover L-R-C ~ $250/speaker

Sonja from Visaton diy info

ANASTASIA
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers

The reason I thought about separate cabinets was initially because I wanted to have the woofer for mids and tweeter separated from the (sub?)woofer used for lows, since I heard and read that it is better acoustically.
As a small side note: Lately I have been thinking about doing a "simpler" 2 way (mid+high) and make the woofer active for better subs.. IF budget allows (im explaining this in my next post to reply in general )
Space wise is not much of an issue (height-wise), I have access to free lumber, and I dont mind doing 4 boxes total it ends up looking and sounding good..so Im ok with in those regards on building separate boxed

The coherency and the mimicking of a point source, well honestly, I dont know what you are talking about ... sorry, I still have plenty to learn.
You have some helpful info/links in this regard to educate me?

 

[NewGuy781]

I'd suggest investigating active crossovers if you're going 3 way.
Also, I haven't seen many 3 way systems that use a sub. I wanted to build something similar but since I have a pretty good sub, the investment (in a pair of 8 in woofers) would be pointless.
So you might be better using the sub with a 2 way using a pair of 6 in woofers and tweeters.

I have been reading more lately and yes, I have changed the plan to 2 way.. primarily due to budget and also your and others' comments.. It makes more sense and I was way ahead of myself

I have a pair of 7 inches of questionable quality, although they sound quite good considering the crappy wiring it has now (I attached pictures of the old 3-ways). Don't ask me who did this, I got it second hand. I'm a newbie and this does not look well done to me LOL (am I wrong? )

 

[NewGuy781]

I'm not the best for info about Europe. You've got 2 good suggestions so far and maybe others can chime in with some more.

But you'll want to check out what drivers are available and their cost as you look through kits and other build projects. Here are some other reputable dealers in Europe that I'm aware of:

Falcon Acoustics | The Leading DIY Speaker Parts and Kit Supplier since 1972
AUDIO-HI.FI, Loudspeaker shop
RumoH - Caps, Coils and Speakers
[URL="https://www.audiohobby.eu/en/5510-speaker-drivers"]http://audio.nl/Aprodview.asp?type=logos[/URL]

If your budget is tight, Peerless SDS and SLS and SB Acoustics PFC series offer very good value. Dayton drivers do as well (the RS series is probably a step above those just mentioned) but are usually a bit more expensive in Europe than here in North America.



This isn't a bad idea if money is quite tight. Most newbies don't really consider how fast the cost of the actual xo parts can add up. Or the fact that a 3-way xo is generally going to be more than twice as expensive as a 2-way xo. Going with a cheaper 2-way then may allow you use slightly better and more expensive drivers instead of spending some of that money on a 3-way xo. Maybe something like Paul Carmody's Amiga. It's also possible to run the woofer in a 3-way like the Tarkus sealed in a smaller box and so still need a sub for the lowest frquencies. But suit yourself of course.

Other sources for proven builds:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects (though Troel's doesn't do a lot of cheaper builds but it's a great resource for learning)
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy (mentioned previously)
http://speakerdesignworks.com/index.html
http://www.divine-audio.com/
https://www.rob-elder.com/LouC/speakers/SpeakThumb/Gallery.html
http://projectgallery.parts-express.com/category/speaker-projects/tower-floor/
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/30395-links-to-existing-diy-speaker-designs

That should keep you busy for a while and hopefully should help.

I'd suggest investigating active crossovers if you're going 3 way.
Also, I haven't seen many 3 way systems that use a sub. I wanted to build something similar but since I have a pretty good sub, the investment (in a pair of 8 in woofers) would be pointless.
So you might be better using the sub with a 2 way using a pair of 6 in woofers and tweeters.

Do you want to build separate cabinets for the T-M and the W:
--- so you can use the separate T-M for lenghtly on-desk or book-shelf placement?
-OR- because two boxes are easier to move around
-OR- because you believe two separate boxes will be easier to build?
-OR- because you are interested in educational experiments

A single cabinet will be
-- easier to build,
-- lower cost,
-- smaller because the woofer uses the extra volume behind sealed TM box,
-- more coherent sound stage because woofer is only a few inches below midrange
-----To best mimic a point source, with a 250Hz crossover the C-to-C of the M-to-W should be < 13"

Example: 8+5+1
Truncated Pyramid: Drivers + crossover L-R-C ~ $250/speaker

Sonja from Visaton diy info

ANASTASIA
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers

You've gotten good advice, but I'll try to add a few more points.

First, give us you actual budget.


- Crossover Related
What considerations are important when matching a passive* crossover to speakers. What specifications do I have to look at and compare to match them properly?
Does each speaker have to be matched in some specific way to the crossover, or is it more relevant to match a certain speaker better/as opposed to the others?


in short, it's soooo complicated to design a passive crossover properly, DO NOT use a stock crossover. 99% chance that it won't sound right. Either find a design to use or if you are interested in learning, use a minidsp to make an active setup. That's still complicated and you'll have to learn a ton to make it work right and buy a umik and learn to use REW software for measuring, but at least you can improve it as you learn easily, unlike a passive crossover.


Phase corrections; is this more about the placement of the speaker on the box or something I should look at when choosing the crossover.

this is mostly in the crossover, but understanding it is a long process. Another reason to use someone else's design.

Hello! Im sorry I got backed up in school But Im back and I have been reading your comments, still going through some of it and links and thanks for all that!

So I have changed the plan following your advice and I am going for a 2-way instead. Im learning some more about crossovers and will decide a little later if I adventure myself with software etc etc and try do it myself or If I find something around my budget already designed.

So to answer the budget question and to "present" my new intention following your advice... and I hope you can provide more corrections and advice now too
My budget is still low (around 200-250EUR).
Given the budget and the fact that I was over my head with this, Im going with a pair or 2-ways with passive crossover Later when I get a job and have more to spend I'll definitely go active xo since all of your info and references have shown me the light on this, but for now I just cannot (or at least have not find any within my budget). And Ill do a pair of boxes for a subwoofer (or an attempt of one )

To clarify the last part, I have a pair of old 3ways (box falling apart and probably tinkered with by previous owner, yet have sounded quite good). So I thought I could do a combo of Rescue/new speaker i.e. Salvage what I can to use in my experiment build (Ill attach a picture of them).

So for now I was thinking I could use the 7" woofers on 2 separate boxes (using the current box dimensions and port to avoid all the calculating since I have no T/S specs on them) and I saw some cheap amps around for them as to be used as a pair of subs (they are supposed to be rated down to 35hz, dont have +-db on that, but "seven nation army" sounded quite good on them ).
And then I'll do the the 2-ways either using a kit or try* to diy. I'd rather diy, obviously got a lot to learn still but I can make time.


So I have a few questions related to this new "plan"
1. More of a request; please correct me and or advice me on this approach
2. Provided that the receiver/amp I have sends anything below 90hz to subs (as per user manual) and that I'm going to attempt doing these "subs", does this mean that the design of the crossover for the 2-ways has to be in anyway different? Im guessing no cause it's still 2 speakers, but Ive been corrected plenty and rightly here before LOL.
3. The "rescue" 7" woofers are rated at 60W (100max) so should I look for similar rating for the 2-ways? I know I have been given some info on the wattage here before but since the "subs" would be separately amplified then Im wondering if this changes everything.
4. In proven designs that I have found might be good for me, like the Tarkus and the BAMTM (3-way and 2-way) I see that generally they provide the actual graphs, parts etc, but they are done a few years back. So if looking for parts I find that the used component is not available should I just scratch it and look for another design or can I look for the closest to identical alternative? Something tells me I might get talked hard on this last question but well I need to ask to see how to proceed

So thanks in advance again, and here is hoping for the best!