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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 1st December 2019, 05:39 PM   #221
mark100 is online now mark100  United States
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Hate to say it, but I haven't yet given a listen to the PAS horns.....been so focused on the synergy.

I've heard good things about the RCF 940/950 CDs. Price is definitely nicer !

Number of crossovers doesn't bother me though...I'll stay flat phase no matter how many sections I stitch together...it's so easy with FIR.
And I do like how headroom and SPL increase with coax's, compared to single section CDs. (Also like the ability to set limiters for each section independently)
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Old 1st December 2019, 09:56 PM   #222
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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@Peter Morris: As you'll know, throughout the years Krix has developed numerous horns based on the research of Richard C. Morgans et al.
Krix also issued a number of patents on their advanced diffraction technology.
Except for the smaller 1" horns, most of the larger diffraction horns feature unconventional throat sizes.

I guess your Krix horns (for the mid/high cab) are medium-sized, and would normally be used by Krix with either a 4 or 3" diaphragm driver?
It would be interesting to see some measurement data of the mid/high with the Krix horn.


A few examples of similar horns. The top horns of the Krix 4 way systems are 1" and the throat size of the mid/high horns may vary.

Last edited by Ro808; 1st December 2019 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 1st December 2019, 10:36 PM   #223
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark100 View Post
Hate to say it, but I haven't yet given a listen to the PAS horns.....been so focused on the synergy.

I've heard good things about the RCF 940/950 CDs. Price is definitely nicer !

Number of crossovers doesn't bother me though...I'll stay flat phase no matter how many sections I stitch together...it's so easy with FIR.
And I do like how headroom and SPL increase with coax's, compared to single section CDs. (Also like the ability to set limiters for each section independently)
What are the dimensions of the PAS horns? They look somewhat similar to my own horns, except for the depth > mine are 30.8 cm.

Ease of implementing additional XOs is indeed a big advantage of DSP, another is dialing in of horns.

If you have the possibility to play (extremely) loud and/or use Synergies for PA, the coaxials definitely have the edge. For hi-fi at home, the 2 way option (e.g. ND940 + 2x MB12N405) provides more headroom than you'll ever need.

Last edited by Ro808; 1st December 2019 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:21 PM   #224
mark100 is online now mark100  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
What are the dimensions of the PAS horns? They look somewhat similar to my own horns, except for the depth > mine are 30.8 cm.

Ease of implementing additional XOs is indeed a big advantage of DSP, another is dialing in of horns.

If you have the possibility to play (extremely) loud and/or use Synergies for PA, the coaxials definitely have the edge. For hi-fi at home, the 2 way option (e.g. ND940 + 2x MB12N405) provides more headroom than you'll ever need.
Mine are 75x43 cm, and 40.6 cm deep. (29.5x17x16" D)
Are yours 2" exit too? Like them?

You are really right about the ND940 being more than enough for home (as in way more )
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Old 2nd December 2019, 05:05 PM   #225
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Mine are about 61W x W41 x D31, so a little smaller overall. The throat is 2".
Basically they are scaled up JBLs 2380A, albeit with a relatively short diffraction slot(length).
These sound rather nice crossed at 750Hz. I don't recognize the artefacts that many people seem to have experienced with such horns.
Actually I prefer the sound of my horns to almost any of the smaller waveguides.

The mouth section of the PAS horns looks quite similar to that of Bjørn Omholt's Bi-Radial horns (designed by Don keele), but the slot appears to be longer.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


You might be pleasantly surprised by the PAS horns with the DCX464 high passed at 500 or 600Hz on top of a bass cab.

Last edited by Ro808; 2nd December 2019 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 06:12 PM   #226
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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For the sake of completeness:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DCX464_1.jpg (245.1 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg DCX464_2.jpg (346.0 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg DCX464_3.jpg (618.8 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg DCX464_4.jpg (483.9 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg DCX464_5.jpg (226.0 KB, 65 views)
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:56 PM   #227
mark100 is online now mark100  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
Mine are about 61W x W41 x D31, so a little smaller overall. The throat is 2".
Basically they are scaled up JBLs 2380A, albeit with a relatively short diffraction slot(length).
These sound rather nice crossed at 750Hz. I don't recognize the artefacts that many people seem to have experienced with such horns.
Actually I prefer the sound of my horns to almost any of the smaller waveguides.

The mouth section of the PAS horns looks quite similar to that of Bjørn Omholt's Bi-Radial horns (designed by Don keele), but the slot appears to be longer.


You might be pleasantly surprised by the PAS horns with the DCX464 high passed at 500 or 600Hz on top of a bass cab.
That's great news, and strong motivation to get my butt in gear and try that..
Thx !
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:56 PM   #228
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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In general, the shorter the diffraction slot, the less likely it is that typical diffraction side effects will manifest themselves.
The opening of the slot in your PAS horns isn't very narrow, which is also a good thing.

The fact that Bjorn Omholt sold his (highly regarded) Klipsch K402s, because he preferred the Bi-Radials, contradicts the prevalent misconceptions wrt diffraction horns.

Last edited by Ro808; 2nd December 2019 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 11:22 PM   #229
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Closeups of the horn that BMS specifically designed for their coaxial compression drivers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BMS 2236 Horn_1.jpg (195.3 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg BMS 2236 Horn_2.jpg (163.1 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg bms-2236-1119772.jpg (698.2 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg bms-2236-1119773.jpg (740.8 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg bms-2236-1119774.jpg (603.4 KB, 50 views)
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Old 3rd December 2019, 12:13 AM   #230
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Yikes! That looks terrible.
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