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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

B&C DCX464
B&C DCX464
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Old 20th October 2019, 02:19 PM   #211
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
The DCX464 sounds clearer and more natural through the mids. The BMS4594 has a lovely sparkle or air to the VHF that I suspect is not 100% correct, but it does sound nice. The DCX464 does not have the same sparkle but at the same time I can稚 fault what I知 hearing.

@ Mark, Hi mate, great to see you here. The horn is made by Krix speakers. Its used in their theatre range. Unfortunately, they will not sell it separately (I have asked). It has wonderful pattern control, and goes a bit lower than the RCF HF950.
For sure Peter, And great to see you post here too.

It's always a blessing to those of us DIY'ers who like the sound of Hi-Fi PA, when an accomplished live-sound professional continues to have an interest in DIY, and staying atop of best available components.

After reading your subjective comparison of the DCX464 and BMS4594, my impression is you articulated what I've been hearing too, only I hadn't been able to characterize it (even in my mind) nearly as clear.

Cheers mate!
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Old 24th October 2019, 03:37 AM   #212
Peter Morris is offline Peter Morris  Australia
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Adelaide
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
The DCX464 sounds clearer and more natural through the mids. The BMS4594 has a lovely sparkle or air to the VHF that I suspect is not 100% correct, but it does sound nice. The DCX464 does not have the same sparkle but at the same time I can稚 fault what I知 hearing.

@ Mark, Hi mate, great to see you here. The horn is made by Krix speakers. Its used in their theatre range. Unfortunately, they will not sell it separately (I have asked). It has wonderful pattern control, and goes a bit lower than the RCF HF950.
I have been doing a bit more work, so just to add a bit more - I think some of the sparkle I hear from the BMS is distortion, as such the target curve that sounds the best for the VHF is perhaps a little rolled off to compensate for the distortion (which does sound nice). In comparison the 464 needs to be flat, requiring a bit of a boost around 18K to do that.

FWIW I知 VERY happy with the results I知 getting now with the 464.
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Old 24th October 2019, 05:30 PM   #213
pk is offline pk  Denmark
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the added impressions!

Have you had a chance to compare the B&C DCX464 to any of the large format - and much more expensive - Be diaphragm drivers (i.e., 2" TAD 4001, 1.5" 4002, or 1.4" Radian 745NeoBE, or 2" 950PBBe)? And if "yes", then how does the B&C DCX464 compare against any of these Be equivalents?

I understand your main interest is PA, but if you were built the best possible super-monitor for studio/home use, which compression driver would you base this on?

Thanks a lot!

Best regards
Peter



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
I have been doing a bit more work, so just to add a bit more - I think some of the sparkle I hear from the BMS is distortion, as such the target curve that sounds the best for the VHF is perhaps a little rolled off to compensate for the distortion (which does sound nice). In comparison the 464 needs to be flat, requiring a bit of a boost around 18K to do that.

FWIW I知 VERY happy with the results I知 getting now with the 464.
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Old 25th October 2019, 11:33 AM   #214
Peter Morris is offline Peter Morris  Australia
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Location: Adelaide
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk View Post
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the added impressions!

Have you had a chance to compare the B&C DCX464 to any of the large format - and much more expensive - Be diaphragm drivers (i.e., 2" TAD 4001, 1.5" 4002, or 1.4" Radian 745NeoBE, or 2" 950PBBe)? And if "yes", then how does the B&C DCX464 compare against any of these Be equivalents?

I understand your main interest is PA, but if you were built the best possible super-monitor for studio/home use, which compression driver would you base this on?

Thanks a lot!

Best regards
Peter
No I have not compared it to any of the beryllium diaphragm compression drivers.

There is one big difference with the 464, it will go much lower than the drivers you mentioned and produce serious SPL from about 400Hz up.

If I was going to build some 都uper-monitors as you mentioned I would probably try and go with something with a 1.4 exit so that I could achieve reasonable pattern control at the high frequencies.

What driver I used for the HF would depend on how low I needed it to go. I would try to ensure the MID/HF or LF/HF crossover frequency meant the MID or LF driver was operating in its piston range if possible.

The 760NEOPB looks very good if you don稚 need the compression driver to go low.

Another interesting driver is Eighteen Sound痴 ND3ST, which I have heard and it does sound excellent.

One I have not heard is FaitalPRO痴 HF1440, but it does look interesting (see bottom link)

For my application where I need something to go as low as 500-600Hz and still make serious SPL the 464 is excellent and I知 getting studio monitor results when processed on a Lake LM26

Some links that I知 sure you have seen -

The 745NEOBe Compression Driver from Radian Audio | audioXpress

Test Bench: Radian Audio Engineering 950PB and 760NEOPB Compression Drivers | audioXpress

Test Bench: The 951PB 1.4" Compression Driver from Radian Audio Engineering | audioXpress

Test Bench: Eighteen Sound ND3ST 1.4” Compression Driver | audioXpress

New FaitalPro HF1440 Compression Driver Extends Frequency Response and Power in a Compact Format | audioXpress
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Old 25th October 2019, 01:44 PM   #215
pk is offline pk  Denmark
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi again Peter,

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts and impressions.

Best regards
Peter



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
No I have not compared it to any of the beryllium diaphragm compression drivers.

There is one big difference with the 464, it will go much lower than the drivers you mentioned and produce serious SPL from about 400Hz up.

If I was going to build some 都uper-monitors as you mentioned I would probably try and go with something with a 1.4 exit so that I could achieve reasonable pattern control at the high frequencies.

What driver I used for the HF would depend on how low I needed it to go. I would try to ensure the MID/HF or LF/HF crossover frequency meant the MID or LF driver was operating in its piston range if possible.

The 760NEOPB looks very good if you don稚 need the compression driver to go low.

Another interesting driver is Eighteen Sound痴 ND3ST, which I have heard and it does sound excellent.

One I have not heard is FaitalPRO痴 HF1440, but it does look interesting (see bottom link)

For my application where I need something to go as low as 500-600Hz and still make serious SPL the 464 is excellent and I知 getting studio monitor results when processed on a Lake LM26

Some links that I知 sure you have seen -

The 745NEOBe Compression Driver from Radian Audio | audioXpress

Test Bench: Radian Audio Engineering 950PB and 760NEOPB Compression Drivers | audioXpress

Test Bench: The 951PB 1.4" Compression Driver from Radian Audio Engineering | audioXpress

Test Bench: Eighteen Sound ND3ST 1.4 Compression Driver | audioXpress

New FaitalPro HF1440 Compression Driver Extends Frequency Response and Power in a Compact Format | audioXpress
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Old 29th November 2019, 09:24 PM   #216
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark100 View Post

Anybody know what horn this is ??...cabinet and horn says Professional Audio Systems and it has a RH SSD 3301 2" CD
Custom CD design for PAS by DDS horns (which was their supplier).
It looks like a "flat front" version of this horn.
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Old 30th November 2019, 02:29 PM   #217
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
Custom CD design for PAS by DDS horns (which was their supplier).
It looks like a "flat front" version of this horn.
Thank you !!

I got a 2" to 1.4" adapter....need to give that horn a good evaluation.

All my attention with the dcx464 is still into this project...here's latest incarnation....over push-push dual 18".
The dcx is sounding very, very nice in this syn attempt...happy camper.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg syn5 with 18fh500s 400R.jpg (58.5 KB, 350 views)
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Old 30th November 2019, 03:49 PM   #218
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Join Date: Mar 2010
That horn looks very cool Mark! I like the simplicity of only 4 holes.

Which mids did you use, 2x10 or 12, and B&C as well?
Crossover is somewhere between 500 and 700Hz?
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Old 30th November 2019, 06:18 PM   #219
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Thanks again Ro808,

I've been using 2x12...rcf mb12n351's...the same drivers used in the Peter Morris design.
Crossed to subs at 120Hz...trying not to have to use reflex ports in the synergy.
But I just switched to a different pair of 12"s I had...mb12n405's..because I think these will work down to 100 Hz without ports. They are really heavy bastards or I would have been using them all along.

So far, I've been crossing from the 12"s to the CD at 650Hz...but this has been mainly to have a more direct comparison to other boxes I have set up at that cross freq, such as the PM60/90.
I plan to try dropping to 500Hz soon...
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Old 1st December 2019, 01:53 AM   #220
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Based on T&S the MB 12N405 is slightly better suited to sealed than the MB12N351.
As you pointed out, the 405 is more robust and will take some beating/boosting.

If driver spacing allows a crossover >600Hz, the RCF ND940 is a viable and less costly alternative to the coaxials.
One less crossover point isn't a bad thing either.

BTW, how did you like the the PAS horns compared to the XT1464 and HF950?

Last edited by Ro808; 1st December 2019 at 02:04 AM.
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