Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

250Hz-2kHz horn for B&C 8PE21
250Hz-2kHz horn for B&C 8PE21
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st April 2019, 11:31 AM   #41
apolinary is offline apolinary  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Thanks for your comments and ideas.
I've been digging deeper and what I found out - telling long story short - that going with 8PE21 will propably cause a lot of work to get it higher in the frequency. It is praised for its horn response but rather from about 100-150 Hz and nobody really cares about the response above 1000Hz. Well, I do...
So what I will do is having a fullrange 8'', something like TB 1772 or DA PS220. I got some info from people using them like that and they seemed to be very happy with the concept. I even managed to find some project with some measurements and it looked very promising. The guy had quite good response in 250-5000 Hz and the horn mouth is (more or less) as big as that of my prototype and it's a tractrix. That would be my way I think.
New Horn Project 23" Tractrix - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
__________________
Who hath ears to hear let him hear.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2019, 10:16 PM   #42
DougL is offline DougL  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wheaton IL.
Please report what you find.
__________________
Scienta sine ars nihil est - Science without Art is nothing. (Implies the converse as well)
Mater tua criceta fuit, et pater tuo redoluit bacarum sambucus
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2019, 01:05 AM   #43
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 'straya
Why an 8" with whizzer?

From 250Hz - 2kHz, the TB looks like a hot mess:Tang Band W8-1772 Fullrange Loudspeaker Measurements Data and Information Full Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by apolinary View Post
I even managed to find some project with some measurements
When I look at the project's plot showing on axis, 15, and 30 degrees off axis, I notice that, relative to 300Hz, there is a 10-15dB hole at 800Hz (image attached)

The Lowther + Azura AH-160 is a similar driver+horn configuration, and the FR plot shows roughly the same 15dB hole:
Azurahorn -Le Cleac'h Acoustic Horns - Products

If your goal is 250Hz - 2kHz, and no/simple EQ, I think that a configuration with a big dip in the middle is a bad idea.

-------

This, IMO, looks better - an easy DIY project with a cheap pro driver. The response looks good (with simple EQ) for another octave: the first big dip is at about 1.6kHz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
I have a 175Hz tractrix horn (from Volvotreter's spreadshest) designed for a 5in driver [...] It had very low distortion and played very loud
I think any stiff-coned driver in the 4-6" range (with the horn throat suitably scaled) would be OK.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg post-24405-13819823059558.jpg (190.4 KB, 150 views)
__________________
This edit signature thingy is seriously hard to find

Last edited by hollowboy; 2nd April 2019 at 01:06 AM. Reason: Noted what the image is
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2019, 08:59 AM   #44
apolinary is offline apolinary  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Hollowboy,
Unfortunately you are right... The dip is there.
However, looking at the response of the PRV driver you can conclude that the dip around 1600Hz is pretty much the same (no eq). And what I can tell from my experience that you propably will find it more annoying than that 800Hz one.
I know that it's not a perfect (or even good) solution nevertheless my horn is not a round one and I can experiment with the lenght or the throat size... the hope is still there...
From the other hand: in the old thread: Midbass horn Mr POOH provided the measurement of B&C 6PEV13 in 180Hz, 2'' throat horn and that is what you can call the response: plus minus 2dB from the average within 300-2k (attached).
I never liked the midrange from 6-7'' drivers though...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BC6PVno chamber.jpg (92.0 KB, 124 views)
__________________
Who hath ears to hear let him hear.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2019, 11:31 AM   #45
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 'straya
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolinary View Post
And what I can tell from my experience that you propably will find it more annoying than that 800Hz one.
If a dip is near the edge of the desired pass band, you can move the crossover point slightly. If it is right in the middle, the fix is a bit trickier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apolinary View Post
POOH provided the measurement of B&C 6PEV13 in 180Hz, 2'' throat horn and that is what you can call the response
He's tried a lot of combinations. That one looks good - probably not for a room / user like me, but great for a very dedicated, focused listening space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apolinary View Post
I never liked the midrange from 6-7'' drivers though...
Even when used as pure mids (not midbass)? Why is that?
__________________
This edit signature thingy is seriously hard to find
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2019, 02:57 PM   #46
LewinskiH01 is offline LewinskiH01  Argentina
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Buenos Aires
Hello apolinary.

I see you came across my thread/s. I also found it difficult to get to something that would look good on paper/sims. The tests I did with Faital M5N12 in horns were good but I couldn't get to 2kHz xo. I think it's connected with that driver in particular.

Then I also struggled with the center-to-center distance between such a large midrange (horn) and a large tweeter (in my case a TPL-150H) at 2kHz and the probable lobbing issues that would generate.

At the end of the day I was going in circles so decided to build the midbass first and have subs + midbass + tweeters and then experiment with different midranges approaches. But, alas, work got in the way So I'm very delayed.

Other midrange solutions I've toyed with: 8" full range driver as direct radiator or with waveguide, 2" compression driver plus horn (from Pooh), array of 3" direct radiators. Need to experiment.

Please keep us posted with your exploration!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2019, 01:42 AM   #47
apolinary is offline apolinary  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Hi LewinskiH01, glad you joined.
After all that you went through with your cone-midrange horn quest you still are able to put "Faital M5N12" and "horn" in one sentence.. I admire you
__________________
Who hath ears to hear let him hear.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2019, 01:53 AM   #48
apolinary is offline apolinary  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
It seems very childlike of me but I reconsidered. I analysed the curves again and had to admit that going with the 6PEV13 is the most logical next step. So I'm gonna get a pair and see what happens...
If I'm not happy with the outcome I will try some 8'' fullrange, Tang Band or Dayton.
__________________
Who hath ears to hear let him hear.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2019, 10:20 AM   #49
apolinary is offline apolinary  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
You may call it bad luck!
I contacted the B&C distributor and they told me that 6PEV13 was a very rare animal and they didn't have any of them in stock. If requested today they gonna be available propably in June, they have to be manufactured in the next batch. So I passed.
Welcome to the selection again!
Let's say we are sticking to the 6,5'' route.
I read and read and came to the conclusion that I would choose from the two below:


1. 18sound 6ND410
2. Beyma 605ND


I think the 18sound is a tad better for horn aplication (steep rising response). However, it may be difficult to make it play from 250 - 300Hz with correct volume (the "naked" curve shows 90dB at 300Hz). The beyma is more even, but maybe too even and the upper frequency range will be not loud enough...
Which one would you choose for 250 (300) - 2000 Hz range?
__________________
Who hath ears to hear let him hear.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


250Hz-2kHz horn for B&C 8PE21Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best 6-8 midrange for TPL-150H, xo @ 2kHz, sensitivity above 94dB/W LewinskiH01 Multi-Way 37 29th June 2017 10:12 AM
B&C 8PE21 on Tractrix horn jpboyt Multi-Way 21 28th March 2017 03:49 AM
Zaph ZA5.2 kits and tweeter xover below 2kHz andy2 Multi-Way 0 11th November 2015 07:32 PM
Need midbass 150mm-170mm 80-2kHz ro9397 Multi-Way 3 9th February 2013 11:53 PM
Driver suggestions 150Hz-2KHz Xovers Tenson Multi-Way 47 15th September 2007 10:47 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:53 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki