Very nice, but here we talk about speakers that can go lower and with much higher SPL. At the levels the OP is demanding your speaker would either dissolve or evaporate or even both at once.
And that is exactly the challenge: Low non linear distortion (at high SPLs) AND full-range (with good FR linearity) AND high SPL capability (also at low frequencies).
Regards
Charles
And that is exactly the challenge: Low non linear distortion (at high SPLs) AND full-range (with good FR linearity) AND high SPL capability (also at low frequencies).
Regards
Charles
Interesting, and very true.
Exactly ;-)
My own design approach moves from the notion that high excursion is always bad. If you want to move more air in the bass, then you should have more active surface (Sd), NOT more excursion.
And once you have ensured that excursion remains low enough, then all the aforementioned problems with Le non-linearity become irrelevant anyway.
Agreed. This is one reason why double 15" is still very popular for 2 way design, and I like the sound of those dinosaurs, indeed.
80-90% of audiophiles are Hi-Fi folks who's goal is "accuracy"? In my impression, the number is much lower than that even in this DIY forum with a lot of people who do understand technical engineering. They are rather loud minority.
I like the concept of high end audio defined by Harry Pearson. It's all subjective while accuracy still can be a goal.
...high-end could be defined as "gear below which’s price and performance one could not go without compromising the music and the sound.
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For those who like even more authority in the bass range this might be something to consider 8) :
Search Results for “quattro” – Augspurger
I don't know however whether the main speakers are actually two way or two and a half. But maybe the beaming wouldn't actually matter in the case of it being a two way when they are mainly built for staying alive when someone is cranking like mad on bass-heavy tracks.
Regards
Charles
Search Results for “quattro” – Augspurger
I don't know however whether the main speakers are actually two way or two and a half. But maybe the beaming wouldn't actually matter in the case of it being a two way when they are mainly built for staying alive when someone is cranking like mad on bass-heavy tracks.
Regards
Charles
mitchba, have you ever tried minimal phase crossover? I had been advocating linear phase for a while, but I changed my mind recently. I still use FIR, but not linear any more.
Although I do not want to dismiss Le as irrelevant, I agree with this statement.
I don't think the majority of people that own/buy Wilson, Sonus Faber, Magico, Kharma etc. are active members of this forum.
Price isn't necessarily correlated to "quality". You can build a stunning loudspeaker system for the price of 1 small B&W monitor speaker. You'll have to purchase the parts either used or at a discounted price.
I recently bought a pair of NOS woofers for €75 that are still available for €280 each at some stores.
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Totally agree that active surface area (Sd) is the better form of displacement than excursion.
That said however, once Sd is established and becomes a given, I try to use the driver(s) with the greatest xmax.
My assumption is the greater the range of usable excursion, the higher the probability of lower distortion at excursions well below xmax.
I've been using 18n862's based on that thinking...(along with a lot of good test data on the web..)
Also, I tend to think of unused xmax as headroom, analogous to amplifier headroom. There's no doubt in my mind it often helps with huge transients.
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Indication of the price level of non-custom Auspurger systems. At least Mogami cables are included.
(some time ago I bought 30kgs of Mogami cables for 100 bucks from a retired big-shot producer)
(some time ago I bought 30kgs of Mogami cables for 100 bucks from a retired big-shot producer
)
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This depends on the driver's design. Usually the better midwoofers are X-max limited. IOW you'll need a bigger cab.
These days, most woofers are designed to go loud and low in relatively small cabs. This is reflected in the electrical and mechanical parameters.
If you take a look at B&C's current line of woofers and compare parameters to those of 15 years ago you'll notice this trend> higher power rating, higher x-max, low Vas, low Qts etc.
Evidently, there's the trade-off between excursion, output etc.
It's not surprising Faital's mid woofers are well-suited for domestic use.
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What design would you perfer for a bass /midbass loudspeaker driver unit ?
A high efficiency motor on a small membrane with low acoustic resistance controlled by the suspension OR a low efficiency motor on a large membrane with a vey high acoustic resistance controlled by the air ?
With others words with some humor, if you have to run your car on the sand what would you choose ? paddle tires OR slick tires ?
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If headroom, or voicecoil heat, or Le(x) are an issue, it's usually because the system is undersized IMO. That doesn't mean that quality drivers aren't still advantageous, but a simple inexpensive paper cone driver operated well within its limits usually isn't that far off from a very high quality driver operated well within its limits.
My best subwoofers were all made with very basic drivers. Good quality, but stamped frame, poly, etc. They were so good because the designs leveraged distortion and force cancellation, and had plenty of surface area.
My best subwoofers were all made with very basic drivers. Good quality, but stamped frame, poly, etc. They were so good because the designs leveraged distortion and force cancellation, and had plenty of surface area.
It is all about the money!
Question: For a given motor strength and excursion [Xmax], what is the length [l] of voice coil wire that remains is in the magnetic gap for a given [Re]? If we are talking about an underhung design, increasing [Xmax] requires deep buyer pockets. We are now in Goto Unit and ALE country. If [Sd] is increased, then response top end is the sacrificial lamb. Beryllium to the rescue, still even a few Dollars (Yen) more for a compression driver only. For an example of state of the art, have a look at Power Soft's M-Force motor.
YouTube
WHG
Question: For a given motor strength and excursion [Xmax], what is the length [l] of voice coil wire that remains is in the magnetic gap for a given [Re]? If we are talking about an underhung design, increasing [Xmax] requires deep buyer pockets. We are now in Goto Unit and ALE country. If [Sd] is increased, then response top end is the sacrificial lamb. Beryllium to the rescue, still even a few Dollars (Yen) more for a compression driver only. For an example of state of the art, have a look at Power Soft's M-Force motor.
YouTube
WHG
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Good point.
There are a lot of misconceptions with regards to driver quality vs. system perfomance.
It's quite obvious why a B&C TBX driver requires a considerable amount of amp. current to 'come to life'. The question remains whether this is desirable and necessary.
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True, as well as for others.
Just exploring the limits. You can get clean, prodigious bass reproduction even in a relative small footprint as exemplified by the PS product. To reproduce the first octave of music (and other program content as well) requires moving a lot of air. WHG
but are they contributing here?
Just exploring the limits. You can get clean, prodigious bass reproduction even in a relative small footprint as exemplified by the PS product. To reproduce the first octave of music (and other program content as well) requires moving a lot of air. WHG