Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high SPL, low distortion with a 2-way?

Audio Elite · 2019-08-07 9:02 pm

In all the years of reading and studying the development of speakers, I have never enjoyed reading as much as I do this thread. I am 53 now and have been building speakers since I was 12, so that is a relatively long time.
I really want to thank everyone that is involved with this thread, especially
GM and Ro808 :cheers:

Hey Mods, This Thread should be made a Sticky as there is so much information contained herein!!!!!

Wow nearly 2000 posts and 200 pages in such a short time

GM · 2019-08-07 9:19 pm

You're welcome! Got you beat at both ends

[8/73], but you're the first IME that got started nearly as young and until recent years on line, < 18 yrs old.

Yeah, a local got me on a reminiscing 'streak' recently and combined with near adult life long time chronic insomnia has made me an overnight 'chatty Kathy' filled with way too many [local] colloquialisms for a truly international forum. :whacko:

GM

voodooless · 2019-08-07 9:52 pm

GM said:
Beginning at age 18 after auditioning a Heathkit HH-1-C Legato, I've made a crusade/mini-career of it, though mostly have limited my forum 'soapbox' on the subject to just foam horn extensions made from open cell trail pads [AKA camper's mattress] or similar.

Sure, just change the throat area, initial horn flare as required. As long as you don't exceed a 2:1 CR, it's normally near enough to a full size throat.

Cool stuff. So here is my idea for now ..

Create a La Scala like speaker as a 2-way, using 15PR400 in a front loaded horn up-to 600~700Hz, and then at the top a budget horn driven by either HF146 or if can get one, a classic compression driver (like the Altec 808 I mentioned before). The horn will be extended to cover the whole area of the top part baffle. The whole thing will look like a two compartment design, but in reality the top is also needed to make the whole thing a BR box to raise the power handling down low a bit. The ports will be at the back of the top section.

Ro808 · 2019-08-08 1:55 am

Thx Audio Elite.
This thread wouldn't be here without camplo.

4real, the LaScala clone looks sensible and for cosmetic reasons you'll probably wish to keep the proportions between upper and lower horn part the same. However, a bigger horn / waveguide can be advantageous.

ewollowe · 2019-08-08 1:59 am

With dsp and at sensible levels what kind of response could we expect from the faital 15" in that front horn?

camplo · 2019-08-08 3:00 am

Audio Elite said:
In all the years of reading and studying the development of speakers, I have never enjoyed reading as much as I do this thread. I am 53 now and have been building speakers since I was 12, so that is a relatively long time.
I really want to thank everyone that is involved with this thread, especially
GM and Ro808
Hey Mods, This Thread should be made a Sticky as there is so much information contained herein!!!!!

Wow nearly 2000 posts and 200 pages in such a short time

You didn't credit me? Do you not see my ability of curating information? This isn't my first viral/super informational thread on the internet, and within the first 10 post count of joining the forum I've continued my trend. I had to manage relationships, and ask all the "right" questions, as well as, all the "wrong" ones, in order to expose the imperial truths....its a gift really. Even the thread title was created to contain the key elements to draw forth the key players and inspire. There won't be many an aspect of the design that won't go under scrutiny of some sort, via this forum but, brought to the surface, by me.... and you leave me out!?!?!? Lmao!!!!

ewollowe · 2019-08-08 3:46 am

camplo said:
You didn't credit me? Do you not see my ability of curating information? This isn't my first viral/super informational thread on the internet, and within the first 10 post count of joining the forum I've continued my trend. I had to manage relationships, and ask all the "right" questions, as well as, all the "wrong" ones, in order to expose the imperial truths....its a gift really. Even the thread title was created to contain the key elements to draw forth the key players and inspire. There won't be many an aspect of the design that won't go under scrutiny of some sort, via this forum but, brought to the surface, by me.... and you leave me out!?!?!? Lmao!!!!

All hail Camplo! Starter of threads, asker of questions, master of diyaudio.

GM · 2019-08-08 4:51 am

Methinks you protest too much!

Ro808 · 2019-08-08 5:36 am

Klipsch K-510 in modified La Scala industrial cab.
An excellent small horn, but hard to get by as a separate part.

675527d1523889881-footprint-horn-driver-reach-500-hz-ea0512ff-e7e6-4f68-8e73-faf571ed2118-jpeg

docali · 2019-08-08 6:35 am

camplo said:
You didn't credit me? Do you not see my ability of curating information? This isn't my first viral/super informational thread on the internet, and within the first 10 post count of joining the forum I've continued my trend. I had to manage relationships, and ask all the "right" questions, as well as, all the "wrong" ones, in order to expose the imperial truths....its a gift really. Even the thread title was created to contain the key elements to draw forth the key players and inspire. There won't be many an aspect of the design that won't go under scrutiny of some sort, via this forum but, brought to the surface, by me.... and you leave me out!?!?!? Lmao!!!!

We can not be thankful enough for a question whose answer has been known for decades.

Ro808 · 2019-08-08 6:52 am

And yet the question is still good for almost 200 pages of rambling

voodooless · 2019-08-08 7:26 am

ewollowe said:
With dsp and at sensible levels what kind of response could we expect from the faital 15" in that front horn?

Here is raw response and maxSPL of one horn. It's slightly modified from the 3D model I showed earlier in that I made the straight parts of the horn flaring to smooth out the response. Some more tweaking can probably get it even more smooth. Then with a bit of DSP you could get the third response (only fiddle for a couple of minutes with it).

Ro808 said:
4real, the LaScala clone looks sensible and for cosmetic reasons you'll probably wish to keep the proportions between upper and lower horn part the same. However, a bigger horn / waveguide can be advantageous.

Actually the top horn is a bit lower than the original. I figure that it will be mostly dictated by the horn that I can fit in there.

peterbrorsson · 2019-08-08 8:58 am

Audio Elite said:
In all the years of reading and studying the development of speakers, I have never enjoyed reading as much as I do this thread. I am 53 now and have been building speakers since I was 12, so that is a relatively long time.
I really want to thank everyone that is involved with this thread, especially
GM and Ro808 and others

What he said!
This thread got me to buy a pair of horns to play with :drink:

Ro808 · 2019-08-08 9:04 am

The third response looks very usable for a 2-way.
Which kind of flaring did you add?
How about a custom mid/high horn?

oohms · 2019-08-08 9:20 am

Compare it to a sealed or ported enclosure.. often hornloading isn't worth it except for directivity control, but that becomes a difficult/large project for woofers

AllenB · 2019-08-08 9:27 am

oohms said:
Compare it to a sealed or ported enclosure.. often hornloading isn't worth it except for directivity control, but that becomes a difficult/large project for woofers

One must work smart, not hard. It is almost an oxymoron to do freespace directivity control to room controlled frequencies, inside said room.

voodooless · 2019-08-08 9:30 am

oohms said:
Compare it to a sealed or ported enclosure.. often hornloading isn't worth it except for directivity control, but that becomes a difficult/large project for woofers

Yeah, it's indeed mainly about directivity. The horn adds about 2 to 3 dB <200 Hz.

ewollowe · 2019-08-08 12:51 pm

Thanks for that 4real. Looks very usable with the dsp.

Audio Elite · 2019-08-08 1:01 pm

camplo said:
You didn't credit me? Do you not see my ability of curating information? This isn't my first viral/super informational thread on the internet, and within the first 10 post count of joining the forum I've continued my trend. I had to manage relationships, and ask all the "right" questions, as well as, all the "wrong" ones, in order to expose the imperial truths....its a gift really. Even the thread title was created to contain the key elements to draw forth the key players and inspire. There won't be many an aspect of the design that won't go under scrutiny of some sort, via this forum but, brought to the surface, by me.... and you leave me out!?!?!? Lmao!!!!

I did mention everyone involved, but yes thank you for starting the thread Camplo

badman · 2019-08-08 4:51 pm

camplo said:
You didn't credit me? Do you not see my ability of curating information? This isn't my first viral/super informational thread on the internet, and within the first 10 post count of joining the forum I've continued my trend. I had to manage relationships, and ask all the "right" questions, as well as, all the "wrong" ones, in order to expose the imperial truths....its a gift really. Even the thread title was created to contain the key elements to draw forth the key players and inspire. There won't be many an aspect of the design that won't go under scrutiny of some sort, via this forum but, brought to the surface, by me.... and you leave me out!?!?!? Lmao!!!!

This was masterful- you really had me going. Bravo!

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high SPL, low distortion with a 2-way?

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