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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 8th February 2021, 05:09 AM   #6311
Mazza is offline Mazza  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rese66 View Post
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my 2-way that fits the topic quite well. The drivers are LaVoce WSF152.50 and Tymphany DFM2535
Hi Rese,
Nice two ways!

What internal volume did your cabs end up at and are these ported or sealed?

Thanks.
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Old 8th February 2021, 06:20 AM   #6312
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rese66 View Post
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my 2-way that fits the topic quite well. The drivers are LaVoce WSF152.50 and Tymphany DFM2535
Very nice speakers with color matched furnitures. Why you crossed them @1.5k? You could make it a bit lower than that if you want to, I guess...
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Old 8th February 2021, 11:49 AM   #6313
camplo is offline camplo
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Scored a win on some (used) crown CTS 2000 with USP4 cards in them....since I already have 4 crown crown cts amps as it is...I can swap out the cleanest amps and keep the usp4 cards and sell the rest......every crown cts 2000 listing has several watchers (on ebay) plus I'll be selling them with usp3 cards expecting about the same price I bought them for or a little less, still coming out ahead with legit pro sound FIR/IR filtering on my amp.....wtf is a brickwall crossover? 96db/oct? in FIR it does "brickwall", 48, and 24, xo....thats enough for me...I can do whatever else with Acourate it seems?

Did I really read that Acourate will set up the XO for you? Can you use Acourate to execute the filters and send them to outputs now?

Last edited by camplo; 8th February 2021 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 8th February 2021, 06:25 PM   #6314
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Yes Acourate can create crossover filters, I don't know if you could use it in a useful way with a tap limited hardware device. It is designed to be used through computer convolution. I wouldn't describe 96dB/oct as a brickwall filter but crown might in marketing terms.
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Old 8th February 2021, 08:45 PM   #6315
camplo is offline camplo
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Lab gruppen idp series can do FIR filters via firmware up date.... FYI

Fluid my personal dsp advisor lol ty do much replying (as I hoped you would lol)
So is there any benefit I might consider of linear phase outside of crossover?
Does Acourate calculate cover points?
With the usp4 linear phase xover...plus minimum phase voicing....plus linear phase convolution (Acourate + ????) sounds like a done deal?
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:49 PM   #6316
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
So is there any benefit I might consider of linear phase outside of crossover?
Linear phase makes sense for crossovers outside that, the terminology needs to be expanded to properly describe the filter.

Linear phase suggests that the phase is flat and the magnitude is what changes.

Minimum phase has the phase following the frequency response.

Sometimes Linear phase as a term is used to describe acausal filters where the phase and magnitude responses can be set completely independently.

There can also be mixed phase where a combination of the two is used in the one filter.

Acourate, Audiolense, DRC, Dirac etc. can generate all of them based on what the user wants or programs in.

So a filter that can vary the magnitude and phase as needed can be very useful if used properly and carefully, but they can also be abused and make things sound terrible.

A straight Linear phase PEQ has more limited use in speaker tuning but for some things they can be the right choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
Does Acourate calculate cover points?
I don't believe so but I have never used it, it was my understanding that you selected the crossover frequencies and types as part of the process.

This document gives an overview and some examples
http://www.acourate.com/freedownload/XOWhitePaper.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
With the usp4 linear phase xover...plus minimum phase voicing....plus linear phase convolution (Acourate + ????) sounds like a done deal?
If you already had those parts then you could use them that way, Acourate is better used as a complete system where the filters it generates are output to the drivers via hardware or software.

The USP cards have a SHARC DSP so they should be able to load Acourate generated filters but Acourate would be limited in this scenario due to the available taps in the system.

Most DSP hardware comes from the Live sound arena due to there being a market for it there, latency is usually a problem there so high tap counts are of little value. The only realistic option for using Acourate to it's fullest extent is computer convolution.

Having said that you could do a huge amount with the DSP in the USP cards for crossovers and minimum phase corrections without needing to use anything else. That is where I would start.
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Old 9th February 2021, 10:29 AM   #6317
Rese66 is offline Rese66  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
lets see your measurements, looks like it was falling off at 100hz above.....
These measurements are only valid from around 250Hz upwards, because in normal living rooms with 2.5 m high ceilings you cannot measure deeper without catching the reflections.
The bass can be simulated without any problems, so it is not absolutely necessary to measure it. I also added the simulation.

@Mazza:
The internal volume is about 90 liters (3.17ft³) and it is closed, but with a large high-pass cap, which pushes a little in the bass. In the second simulation you can see what effects this has. Red is closed, black is with a cap. Blue would be a very large BR case, but it doesn't matter here.

@plasnu:
You're right, I could have crossed down to around 900Hz, but the off-axis response of the woofer and horn fits very well at 1.5kHz. I also tried a deeper crossover, but it got worse and would have required more effort for the crossover. And the woofer also does a very good sound up to 1.5 kHz.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Asathor simu.jpg (9.5 KB, 289 views)
File Type: jpg Asathor simu cb ghp br.JPG (54.7 KB, 294 views)
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Old 9th February 2021, 12:16 PM   #6318
Boden is offline Boden  Netherlands
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Is the GHP based on the capacitor being loaded with the real, measured impedance of the woofer in box?
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Old 9th February 2021, 07:08 PM   #6319
Rese66 is offline Rese66  Germany
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Yes, the capacitor lowers the impedance a little below the impedance peak of the closed box and thus enables higher levels in this area.
Unfortunately I don't have a measurement with and without a cap.

But here is an example of a subwoofer simulation based on the same principle.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GHP Impedanz simu.JPG (48.7 KB, 245 views)
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:16 PM   #6320
camplo is offline camplo
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Whats the purpose of this sonically?
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