Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high SPL, low distortion with a 2-way?

I have never heard a 15p80nd but I guess it will have a cleaner (in terms of breakup modes) midrange and better extension at its upper end due to the curvilinear cone. The efficiency is also a little higher. But that comes at the cost of low-end extension.

The 2226 is still a very well engineered driver with its shorting rings etc. I have two of these and I must say that the manufacturing quality is very high (so is the quality of my Beyma Woofers BTW). At the lower end it will most likely outperform a 15p80nd.

In terms of sheer low end power there will be a lot of drivers form Southern Europe that will beat a 2226. But that is most probably not very relevant for home-use - or is it ? If you compare datasheets you have to keep in mind that a lot a driver manufacturers measure distortion at one watt. JBL measures THD at 10% of its nominal power (at least for the 2226). A lot of drivers have THD levels at 1 Watt in the same order of magnitude than the 2226 at 60 Watts which speaks for the linearity of its motor.

Regards

Charles

Is the low end better for JBL? It seemed to my that on paper and simulation the 15p80nd looked better. (What do you mean by lower end btw?)

Im aiming for a good quality 2way for home use and low power.
 
I just played aroud a little with a simulator and it looks as if the JBL outperforms the Beyma in the octave from 40 to 80 Hz. At least when used without EQ.
But I could imagine that it would perform very nicely together with a subwoofer. This setup could outperform a single 2226. But that would be apples to …….


Regards

Charles
 
I just played aroud a little with a simulator and it looks as if the JBL outperforms the Beyma in the octave from 40 to 80 Hz. At least when used without EQ.
But I could imagine that it would perform very nicely together with a subwoofer. This setup could outperform a single 2226. But that would be apples to …….


Regards

Charles

Maybe Im mistaken! I had the 2226h first on my list to be honest. Then I got replies like this:

15in + CD - hifi 2way - low power - woofer explorations

and this:

15? Woofer Survey? A Tale Of Three Woofers Article By Jeff Poth

So I got confused :S
 
I have never heard a 15p80nd but I guess it will have a cleaner (in terms of breakup modes) midrange and better extension at its upper end due to the curvilinear cone. The efficiency is also a little higher. But that comes at the cost of low-end extension.

The 2226 is still a very well engineered driver with its shorting rings etc. I have two of these and I must say that the manufacturing quality is very high (so is the quality of my Beyma Woofers BTW). At the lower end it will most likely outperform a 15p80nd.

In terms of sheer low end power there will be a lot of drivers form Southern Europe that will beat a 2226. But that is most probably not very relevant for home-use - or is it ? If you compare datasheets you have to keep in mind that a lot a driver manufacturers measure distortion at one watt. JBL measures THD at 10% of its nominal power (at least for the 2226). A lot of drivers have THD levels at 1 Watt in the same order of magnitude than the 2226 at 60 Watts which speaks for the linearity of its motor.

Regards

Charles


Thanks Charles, this is pretty much the reasoning behind my statement.

The 2226 is indeed an exceptionally well engineered driver, like most JBL Professional drivers. This is why it's been a workhorse / benchmark 15" for decades.
For a 2-way, I would prefer the Beyma, because of the better midrange.

The guy who owns the Zingali studio monitors shown earlier, commented on the lacking midrange qualities of the 2226, which isn't surprising considering its heavy cone. The 2226 is a woofer, not a midwoofer.

A 2226 would still be a capable performer crossed at max. 500Hz.

Finally, a 2226 is also about € 100 more expensive than the 15P80Nd.

At home, the Beyma would easily tolerate a small boost in the low end.
 
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Maybe Im mistaken! I had the 2226h first on my list to be honest. Then I got replies like this:

15in + CD - hifi 2way - low power - woofer explorations

and this:

15? Woofer Survey? A Tale Of Three Woofers Article By Jeff Poth

So I got confused :S


The Jeff Poth article pretty much illustrates the differences between a woofer (2226) and a midwoofer (BD-15).
The 15P80Nd falls in between these two.

By the way, rumour has it the BD-15 is actually a customized Beyma ;)
 
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Maybe Im mistaken! I had the 2226h first on my list to be honest. Then I got replies like this:

15in + CD - hifi 2way - low power - woofer explorations
This is mere assumption that the driver is poor because of decisions made at JBL that he can't possibly know. The 2235 is more of a sub than the 2226 which is more of a midbass and included in a more conventional domestic/monitor design may have proven a better overall system choice, but at several dB loss in sensitivity. Note that there was zero technical evidence provided for the driver preferencing.

For ETM that was a remarkably well balanced. However, note the conclusion that they were all excellent but he had a preference for his design, and the drivers were subjectively tested alone, not in a complete system. Always take that with a grain of salt. A different HF flare, or system design choice could easily have tilted it in another direction.

In the end I don't really care what you build as I would have had a great 3 way finished long before now. I've used the 2226 in several 3 ways and they were superb. Next design will use a pair a side in a more unusual design, again 3 way, but with the 21s for the ULF (so really a 4 way).
 
Thanks Charles, this is pretty much the reasoning behind my statement.

The 2226 is indeed an exceptionally well engineered driver, like most JBL Professional drivers. This is why it's been a workhorse / benchmark 15" for decades.
For a 2-way, I would prefer the Beyma, because of the better midrange.

The guy who owns the Zingali studio monitors shown earlier, commented on the lacking midrange qualities of the 2226, which isn't surprising considering its heavy cone. The 2226 is a woofer, not a midwoofer.

A 2226 would still be a capable performer crossed at max. 500Hz.

Finally, a 2226 is also about € 100 more expensive than the 15P80Nd.

At home, the Beyma would easily tolerate a small boost in the low end.

The Jeff Poth article pretty much illustrates the differences between a woofer (2226) and a midwoofer (BD-15).
The 15P80Nd falls in between these two.

By the way, rumour has it the BD-15 is actually a customized Beyma ;)

This is mere assumption that the driver is poor because of decisions made at JBL that he can't possibly know. The 2235 is more of a sub than the 2226 which is more of a midbass and included in a more conventional domestic/monitor design may have proven a better overall system choice, but at several dB loss in sensitivity. Note that there was zero technical evidence provided for the driver preferencing.

For ETM that was a remarkably well balanced. However, note the conclusion that they were all excellent but he had a preference for his design, and the drivers were subjectively tested alone, not in a complete system. Always take that with a grain of salt. A different HF flare, or system design choice could easily have tilted it in another direction.

In the end I don't really care what you build as I would have had a great 3 way finished long before now. I've used the 2226 in several 3 ways and they were superb. Next design will use a pair a side in a more unusual design, again 3 way, but with the 21s for the ULF (so really a 4 way).


So if someone goes the 2226H route will have to cross around 500? Im planning a typical 1000hz.
 
In the end I don't really care what you build as I would have had a great 3 way finished long before now. I've used the 2226 in several 3 ways and they were superb. Next design will use a pair a side in a more unusual design, again 3 way, but with the 21s for the ULF (so really a 4 way).


Properly designed (not an easy task) 3 or 4-ways have its merits.

For home use, I would prefer a 2-way and it's also what this thread is all about.
 
3 unit 3 way system loudspeaker, in the background a 4 unit, 3 way system.

BAMay18small-4.jpg
 
So if someone goes the 2226H route will have to cross around 500? Im planning a typical 1000hz.
It works fine to 1kHz. I just have my own design preferences.

I also agree that an EU made driver would likely be cheaper. I'm just defending the JBL based upon lots of experience with them. Not sure I would prefer the 15PR400 over the 2226 as it has no shorting rings etc and am concerned distortion will rise with excursion more. I have one on order for a bass guitar rig so I'll comment when I have time to measure. Won't be for a while though.
 
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Brett, there's no doubt about the quality of JBL drivers.

Personally, I think the importance of shorting rings is overrated (for hifi use).
It's a nice to have feature, not a necessity.

Many people tend to focus on specific technical features, while overlooking the aspects that define the actual sonic performance.


Example.

Build 2 cabs with the same horn/waveguide + comp. driver, one optimized for a 2226, the other for the 15PR400.
XO is 1000Hz and both are tweaked, tuned and voiced to death...

I bet, if a string quartet, piano/harpsichord, female vocal or whatever acoustic music is played through both systems, the 15PR400 loaded cab would beat the 2226 cab by a margin.
 
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I agree.

For me, double 15 crossed at 750hz was fine for everything.

But now i am preferring 12" 2-way, i think it has to do with either better horn or higher crossover point for a smaller wooofer.

I see why the home theater crowd has latched onto 12" 2-way, but it is rare (say last 20 years) for home use.

Now i just need a bit more bass................


True rob,
The designer of the diysoundgroup tempest (using delta pro 12a) had a bit more kick than the shorting ring woofer option (zephyr). Perhaps pleasant distortion, even though measurably higher.

Shorting rings help above 140hz (accord ing to wayne parnham).

Lol
 
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The designer of the diysoundgroup tempest (using delta pro 12a) had a bit more kick than the shorting ring woofer option (zephyr). Perhaps pleasant distortion, even though measurably higher.

Shorting rings help above 140hz (accord ing to wayne parnham).

Lol

It probably had a better tone/kick, because of the cone/suspension.
 
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