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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 14th January 2020, 07:25 AM   #5261
camplo is offline camplo
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Quote:
Loudspeakers can be designed to exhibit almost constant impedance,
although it is rarely done. Su loudspeakers can perform with remarkable
consistency
_ That quote kind of lends a clue. The peaks we see in the electrical impedance as a result of resonance....how to gauge the effect as opposed to the reading of the chart. Maybe I should say, how in or out of control the driver is, as opposed how high/low the graph reads. Resonance can mean higher decay times, and maybe higher xmax at times? Not sure. I'm going to stick with lower is better but I can't say that I know what medium is or low or super high/low....I think that 20ohms is decently low if not abnormally... probably the type of impedance response I'd get with some type of aperiodic port thingy....combined with a tuned truncated back-horn...

Last edited by camplo; 14th January 2020 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:32 PM   #5262
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Aperiodic Loudspeaker Enclosure Design
Quote:
Enthusiasts of aperiodic enclosures will often compare the performance with transmission line enclosures, in that the design avoids "ringing" effects of ported enclosures, while alleviating the "pressure effect" of a sealed box.
Quote:
This results in clearer, better defined bass, with more amplifier power and control into the lower frequencies.
Aperiodic Enclosures - Great Sound Stereo Speaker Manual

Quote:
Some speaker authorities make much of a flattened impedance curve; others say its irrelevant. Advocates of the aperiodic enclosure system compare it to the much larger transmission lines. They say the damped aperiodic enclosure avoids the possibility of ringing with a reflex while relieving the "oil can" pressure effect of the closed box
Finally some type of comments geared towards my inquiry but I don't feel like I'm confidently educated on the topic just based off of this reading. Am I tapping into outdated ideology... or is there something to gain with a flattened impedance and to how low is low enough???
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:51 PM   #5263
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Flattened impedance is a significant benefit when doing a passive crossover because it will affect the filter response but less important with active filters and xo. The primary figure of merit for a loudspeaker is its frequency response and you will see nary a ripple in the FR of a sim at the impedance peak. However, the impedance and the peaks and ripples in it are symptomatic of other things; in your case the adequacy of the TL damping - but you can also see that and more directly in the FR.

I would make an effort to understand the causes of the various peaks and ripples in an impedance measurement and to smooth them out, but I wouldn't look for the Z to be above or below any particular number, except to be high enough as to not be problematic for the amplifier.
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Old 14th January 2020, 03:16 PM   #5264
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Quote:
However, the impedance and the peaks and ripples in it are symptomatic of other things; in your case the adequacy of the TL damping
My thoughts as well. They usually are a reflection of a resonance, the electrical impedance is a reflection of what is going to happen on the mechanical level, and thus some type of affect on the sound produced. I think ringing is the big deal? Ringing/Decay..... but how to relate a level of decay vs what is reflected in the impedance.....If loudness is properly achieved, the more dampening the better is the best thing I can come up with....I can't see an instance where you would want a system to resonate any more than is necessary. So dampen all the way until right before it becomes too much, too much being when the dampening starts to create power issues for the driver and loudness goals.... I dampened until the excursion vs input vs output made sense. I put xmax at 777watts at 115db. I also compared this to sealed and ported...Ported has higher efficiency and Sealed has lower.
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Old 14th January 2020, 03:38 PM   #5265
mlee is offline mlee  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
This is the chapter about impedance versus amplifiers (damping factor) versus loudspeaker cable.
Yes, before opening a large can of worms there should be some prerequisite readings before stimulating discussions .
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Old 14th January 2020, 05:08 PM   #5266
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Yes, and I am talking about resonance/ringing level vs sympathetic impedance
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:45 PM   #5267
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Continuing with the horns from post Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?

These are the sim results for the "dxc464_01" as a compromise that does not go as low in return for a smaller horn. The round over (with a flat backside) has been added to the original horn profile.

P.S. Sorry, they are a little late. I found a issue with certain models and spent a few days experimenting with ABEC to identify it and fix it.

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg dxc464_01_3dView.jpg (82.3 KB, 212 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-RadImp.jpg (35.5 KB, 213 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-HorzPolar@3m.jpg (22.5 KB, 210 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-HorzPolarCurves@3m.jpg (39.0 KB, 209 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-VertPolar@3m.jpg (24.3 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-VertPolarCurves@3m.jpg (39.5 KB, 23 views)

Last edited by DonVK; 14th January 2020 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:46 PM   #5268
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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.... and a few observation fields for the above


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File Type: jpg dxc464_01-Field@0K3Hz.jpg (32.6 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-Field@0K5Hz.jpg (32.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-Field@1K5Hz.jpg (34.1 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-Field@4KHz.jpg (36.2 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_01-Field@6KHz.jpg (37.7 KB, 15 views)
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:59 PM   #5269
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Also interesting is @docali provided another version "dxc464_02" of this same horn profile with a more elliptical mouth. The two horns are overlaid (pic#1) to show how similar the profiles are. The "pinkish" parts are the dxc464_02 showing through near the mouth.

A roundover has been added as well and the performance of the two horns are very similar.

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OverLay_DXC454_V1+V2.jpg (51.3 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_02-3dView.jpg (67.5 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_02-RadImp.jpg (38.1 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_02-HorzPolar@3m.jpg (23.1 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_02-HorzPolarCurves@3m.jpg (43.7 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_02-VertPolar.jpg (24.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg dxc464_02-VertPolarCurve@3m.jpg (39.9 KB, 21 views)
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:29 AM   #5270
docali is offline docali  Germany
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Hi Don!

Very interesting results! Thanks! It seems that the round over minimizes the differences between rectangular and elliptical. The last sim show a sudden increase for the impedance. I would assume tat this is an artifact of the mesh size? The two horns are very similar and I would not understand this difference.
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