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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:20 PM   #491
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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This guy is a dipole fanatic.
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Old 19th May 2019, 10:16 PM   #492
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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For a subwoofer you would want a decent inductance which means there is a nice voice coil ready to transfer electrons to powerful bass.

The added 'impulse delay' of the inductor is compensated with higher power and you don't want high frequency, I don't see any problems, mass is the big problems: reduces efficiency, makes VC heat, create THD, create phase delay at higher frequency as shown in the Adire audio document.
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Old 19th May 2019, 10:25 PM   #493
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverprout View Post
Excuse me but... could you say why there is no extremely large OB coaxials, they are able to expand the direct field to the listener position.
A medium sized tractrix horn with a 2" compresssion driver unit into a fostex FW800 could do the job without the need of a large Xmax.

Why use an ob if you could have this?:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 19th May 2019, 10:38 PM   #494
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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for room size a dose oIdeal Room Size Dimensions and Ratios for Audiophile Listening - Audiophile Reviewf reality:
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Old 19th May 2019, 10:45 PM   #495
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Although that article is not exactly academic, I am inclined to agree with the conclusions.

Some people think they can fix anything, while it's usually better to avoid the need for it.

Last edited by Ro808; 19th May 2019 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 19th May 2019, 11:03 PM   #496
1audiohack is offline 1audiohack  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
Why use an ob if you could have this?:

Click the image to open in full size.
For sure. High quality high volume playback in one box.

Still, the JBL M2 really checks the OPís boxes no matter that he dismisses them as just another flat two way box. The M2 leaves the old 4430ís so far in the dust in every respect save appearance, itís amazing

Barry.
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Old 19th May 2019, 11:35 PM   #497
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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o. another thing for bass addicts, the harder the walls and the floors the worst the bass...

Basements are about the worse places to have a sub-woofers and home theater. Bass bounces like crazy on the concrete floors under the carpet and corks and whatever you place there...

Hardwoods floors too is bad if supported by thick plywood sheets.

The best bass rooms are high ceilings, very deep, with cheap rotten floors with carpets, I speak from experience.

Give me the choice between a 12x18x8 room in concrete with 15 x dual subs or, a 22x45x10 room with a bouncy floor and a 2 way with 8 inch.
I will choose the second and laugh at your boom box with poor bass and earache, my room will have palatable deep bass that shakes everything and pressurize your hears while clear.
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Last edited by gabdx; 19th May 2019 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:28 AM   #498
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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I haven't heard the M2 or 4367 yet.

It would be interesting to see if it's possible to 'beat' the M2 by a proper diy-effort based on the same concept.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:57 AM   #499
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
For sure. High quality high volume playback in one box.

Still, the JBL M2 really checks the OP’s boxes no matter that he dismisses them as just another flat two way box. The M2 leaves the old 4430’s so far in the dust in every respect save appearance, it’s amazing

Barry.
Totally agree Barry! A few members have reached out to me to share their JBL M2 measurements using Audiolense digital XO and eq. The M2 is the only two way I have seen in-room measurements for that legitimately make it from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with high output and low distortion.

My JBL 4722's 2-ways make it from 40 Hz to 19 kHz with the large format 4" Ti aquaplas CD. I ended up adding dual subs to the setup...

Project M2 DIY Thread on Lansing Heritage site

Kind regards,
Mitch
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Old 20th May 2019, 01:17 AM   #500
camplo is offline camplo
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Originally Posted by mitchba View Post
Totally agree Barry! A few members have reached out to me to share their JBL M2 measurements using Audiolense digital XO and eq. The M2 is the only two way I have seen in-room measurements for that legitimately make it from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with high output and low distortion.

My JBL 4722's 2-ways make it from 40 Hz to 19 kHz with the large format 4" Ti aquaplas CD. I ended up adding dual subs to the setup...

Project M2 DIY Thread on Lansing Heritage site

Kind regards,
Mitch
Yeeeeaaa another person with Aquaplas titanium! What is your experience? Only thing better is Beryllium from what I can tell. If noticed with my xover points, 130hz between the 15h and 15m....thats pretty much all sub territory, though 80hz and below is closer to technical sub territory, the low pass on most subs tops at 130hz....I think GM suggested 60hz as a Xover point even. Once I have the system built I can experiment. From experience I can say that serious excursion begins at about 200hz-130hz and below.

ON the M2, I don't feel like I am downplaying the sophistication of the M2, rather, I am not intimidated. Theres nothing about the M2 that isn't repeatable, is my point. Even if its just simply buying the same drivers and putting them in a box. the crossover point is 800hz? So theoretically I could buy the same drivers and horn, put them in a box, and have a DIY M2. The active crossovers aren't magic and the drivers are purchasable to the masses. Enclosure is at the mercy of ones skills. Are you telling me that there is no other 2 way design that even compares to the M2? If thats so, the drivers are still the mainstay of the M2's allure. has anyone even tried to replicate the M2 results using the AE drivers? Sounds like the the Jbl M2 driver is the best of the AE 15m and 15H combined. Lets not leave out that the M2 compression driver isn't exactly the end all driver, there are people with better ears and experience than I who have made it clear that the 4" Diaphragms have something that the M2 compression driver is lacking....."Authority" being one the words I see repeated. As well, the M2 Cd isn't that great below 900hz from what I've gathered in my studies. The lower the crossover the better I say, and 800hz on a 15" isn't exactly choice from my calculations of Ka. I still believe in the M2 and that it is what I want in a two way, its just that I attempted to reach for those type of specs in a DIY and ended up with a 3 way.....lol...I haven't purchased woofers YET, don't think I won't buy the 2216ND lol!!

Last edited by camplo; 20th May 2019 at 01:40 AM.
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