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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 10th October 2019, 05:12 PM   #3631
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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This is the easiest to comprehend; (s)low versus fast (high) flare rate:

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Old 10th October 2019, 05:41 PM   #3632
krivium is offline krivium  France
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Yes Alg does some very nice drawing but i've never seen one build. It should exist but as long as i've not seen it.. they remains nice drawing/3d rendering.

I don't know all the Davis line, mainly the carbon ones. From 8"cm to 15" i think i've heard most of them. I really like them, they have a very nice low end ( the 8" i thought was incredible given the size). One pro loudspeaker builder using them told me they have difficult break up which need to be adressed.
About quality i don't know, never heard complaints about this particular ones.

Which one do you own Charles? And Ro808 about which ones have you heard bad things?
It seems we are unlucky with our french's drivers company: Phl are really difficults to obtain and have reliable data, Davis could be unreliable, Cabasse or Focal won't sell drivers... To bad there is some true gems in there!

Ro808: the loudspeaker you describe is not very different from Weltersys's Syntrip in my view. I hope Danley will make a 'serious' studio monitor ( a half beast inclined to high sound quality rather than spl )
But yes this is something i would be very interested to listen at. There is something about point source, HE, multiway and controled directivity i find appealing. Fit nicely my own preference.

Last edited by krivium; 10th October 2019 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 10th October 2019, 06:29 PM   #3633
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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I have no experience with Davis drivers, but heard and read some stories about quality issues in the past. Perhaps they've improved their QC eversince.

Their drivers look nice on paper and the reviews on TLHP are generally positive.

The MEH/Synergy in my description is similar to the SynTripP, but even more to Peter Morris' mid/high.
With the crossover at 500 or 600Hz, the MEH probably wouldn't withstand prolonged extreme SPL though.
However, at home 110dB is already earblisteringly loud.

Last edited by Ro808; 10th October 2019 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 10th October 2019, 06:33 PM   #3634
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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High Flare Rate Waveguide:
Attached Images
File Type: png High Flare Rate WG_1-1.png (309.6 KB, 223 views)
File Type: png High Flare Rate WG_1-2.png (111.7 KB, 227 views)
File Type: jpg high_flare_wf01.JPG (34.9 KB, 228 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 10th October 2019 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 10th October 2019, 06:39 PM   #3635
krivium is offline krivium  France
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Agreed. Syntripp, P. MORRIS's design and Danley products are the 3 most interesting design in PA for years in my view.
Mark100 is lucky to have 2 of the 3.
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Old 10th October 2019, 07:19 PM   #3636
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phase_accurate View Post
An interesting modern horn is the 1.4" one from Ciare:

http://oem.ciare.com/pdf_oriz_3.php?info=450

It basically opens up conically in the horizontal axis. And in the vertical axis it opens such that the area follows a hyperbolic rule. It is constant directivity in the horizontal plane and narrowing in the vertical - like the radials do. I have never herad it though. One interesting thing is that its entry angle is the same as the Radian 745's exit angle.
A disadvantage is the narrow beamwidth.

Regards

Charles
I've never seen any of those 'being used' either.
A bunch of the appurtenant drivers - FMJ - 60 "Daisy" - were recently offered at 50€ each.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Ro808; 10th October 2019 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 10th October 2019, 07:35 PM   #3637
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
Due to the short throat there's hardly any loading of the driver below, say 800-1000Hz.
Is this problematic? Dr. Geddes doesn't think so, but I would still be interested in a "1P to the power of 1.4" OS throat
The "loading" - as much as I dislike that word - depends on the angle of the OS waveguide as well as its radius. Hence, for a 90 degree 1" waveguide the radiation resistance is falling below about 500 Hz. A narrower angle lowers the cutoff as does a wider throat radius.

These differ considerably from horn theory.

And no, I do not see any issues with loading from an OS waveguide. As I have said many many times before, this "loading", from the waveguide is insignificant in the bigger picture.
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Old 10th October 2019, 07:42 PM   #3638
krivium is offline krivium  France
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Hi Earl,
I've got a question to you, maybe a bit off topic maybe not... could it be possible to have a coax with an OS profile/shape? Like a 15" Tannoy but with a membrane following OS profile.
If heavily filtered around 300hz to reduce intermodulation distortion it could give interesting results.

Last edited by krivium; 10th October 2019 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 10th October 2019, 07:43 PM   #3639
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
High Flare Rate Waveguide:
Your drawing of the wavefronts cannot be correct. For it to be correct, the wave would have to move faster at the center than at the edge - not possible.

In fact, it turns out that the true wavefront (not one drawn by hand) cannot have a curvature whose center moves past the origin (thoat) - it can be behind the throat, but not in front of it, i.e. the wave can be flatter, but not more curved than it is at the source.
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Old 10th October 2019, 07:49 PM   #3640
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krivium View Post
Hi Earl,
I've got a question to you, maybe a bit off topic maybe not... could it be possible to have a coax with an OS profile/shape? Like a 15".
If heavily filtered around 300hz to reduce intermodulation distortion it could give interesting results.
It could, but as with all waveguide, it wants to be as large as the woofer, which means that it would have to obstruct the woofer. If you mean using the cone as the waveguide, this could be done, but then I don't know what effect a moving waveguide contour would be, but it is probably not a good idea.

I never worry about "intermodulation" distortion in any loudspeaker (except very poorly designed ones.) It's simply not a significant effect.

Waveguides do "distort", but in a linear way, through diffraction, (but not nonlinearly.) That's why diffraction is a bad thing. It can get quite perceptible at higher SPLs.
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