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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 18th September 2019, 06:50 PM   #3111
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Default Origin of the Strauss SE-MF-2 reference monitor

There's a nice little story behind the development of the original SE-MF-2, which was originally custom built for the Mastering Rooms at Sony Music Studio Tokio, around the turn of the century (see the attached .pdf for more background information).

The Sony engineers desired a truly "transparent" Monitor, thus set up a competition and invited manufactures to take part in a tendering procedure. They were familiar with most of the monitors on the planet and none met all of their requirements, therefore they asked participants to develop a truly transparent large format reference monitor loudspeaker.
The winner of the tender would receive an order for 28 monitor speakers, regardless of the price.

Bare in mind, this took place at the dawn of high resolution audio and just before the collapse of the traditional music industry due to the internet. At that time Sony was already one of the largest media companies in the world. In the 1990s Sony had developed their own series of high-end monitor speakers, the SEM range. While highly sought after by the Asian audio community today, these didn't quite meet the objectives of the engineers.
In Japan, audio freaks have extensively measured the Sony drivers and compared those to similar high end drivers from TAD, JBL, McCauley, Goto etc.
It appears, the Sony SUP T-11 is one of the best compression drivers ever made, whereas the impressive looking and extremely heavy Alnico woofers are not so great.

Up to this day the SUP-T11 compression driver is used in the SE-MF-2. Apparently, Jürgen Strauss secured a considerable amount of these drivers, because these are still being used for the same monitor.

Mr. Strauss already had a concept in mind and ideas to build a mastering monitor speaker that would take "transparency" to the next level. He opted for a different approach than commonly used by speaker manufacturers. Development was prohibitive, as the speaker would be too expensive for most studios and even mastering houses. However, with the option to sell 28 speakers right away, he could take the risk, as he was quite convinced that he would win.

Eventually, more then 30 manufacturers built and presented prototypes of large format reference monitor speakers.
Strauss won and the engineers at Sony commented:"We have never encountered such accurate Mastering Monitors before".


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Attached Files
File Type: pdf Sony-Music-Studios-Tokyo.pdf (361.7 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 18th September 2019 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:01 PM   #3112
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Not anywhere near its power rating.

GM
Your missing the point - loading has very little to do with it.
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:07 PM   #3113
docali is offline docali  Germany
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This horn belongs to the best horns shown here in this thread. The loading is excellent and can be proven easily by impedance measurements. If you look at the data sheet also the polars are more than acceptable. As I own the Selenium copy I can state that it is far superior to any CD horn I have heard. Congrats to JBL for this design.
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:12 PM   #3114
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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The loading is excellent and can be proven easily by impedance measurements.
And these are shown where?
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:13 PM   #3115
GM is offline GM  United States
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Hmm, a driver is rated 30 W/500 Hz on a so called 500 Hz horn, but load it with a large flat baffle and it can only handle just a small fraction of it, so how can it have very little to do with it?

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Old 18th September 2019, 07:14 PM   #3116
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Many pages ago I posted some info of the customized Japanese 2386A, which improves response at the low end.

Bjorn Omholt had some large format bi-radial horns made, which, according to him, clearly beat the Klipsch K402.
His horns are basically upscaled 2386As.

IMO the bad reputation of the JBL bi-radial horns is unjust and primarily due to the suboptimal implementation and application.
Yes, there's diffraction, but I haven't found it bothersome as long as the right driver is used.
See also the Calpamos speakers, which are described as "very smooth sounding" by people who've heard those.

Last edited by Ro808; 18th September 2019 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:53 PM   #3117
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Hmm, a driver is rated 30 W/500 Hz on a so called 500 Hz horn, but load it with a large flat baffle and it can only handle just a small fraction of it, so how can it have very little to do with it?

GM
You would have to show me that different horns have a effect like this, i.e. that the power rating depends on the specific horn. Having no horn is an effect, (I seriously doubt "just a small fraction of it") granted, but this is not what I am talking about. The acoustic impedance seen by a CD is mostly due to the compression ratio, so that is common to all horns. Then all horns have similar effects, making the end result only marginally affected by the horn acoustic impedance. "Loading" is simply a mostly fictitious concept as used in the industry.
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:55 PM   #3118
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Yes, there's diffraction, but I haven't found it bothersome as long as the right driver is used.
I find diffraction in a horn the most audible degradation effect of all.
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:37 PM   #3119
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Diffraction is intrisic to every horn and waveguide. The amounts vary, but in my experience as well as that of others, the perceived net effect on the acoustic performance and listening experience of a properly designed complete loudspeaker system may be insignificant.

A bar of 30ppi foam, placed in the slot, further reduces typical diffraction artefacts.

Last edited by Ro808; 18th September 2019 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:37 PM   #3120
peterbrorsson is offline peterbrorsson  Sweden
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Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
There's a nice little story

Eventually, more then 30 manufacturers built and presented prototypes of large format reference monitor speakers.
Strauss won and the engineers at Sony commented:"We have never encountered such accurate Mastering Monitors before".


Click the image to open in full size.
So you're saying nobody can make this driver again? It sounds like hyperbole to me + reading about people can smoke without smelling it in the building, pffht!
Nice story though!
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