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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 4th March 2019, 04:31 PM   #21
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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In a large room, 30Hz might get help from a mode. In a small room some help from pressurization with closed box driver. With eg. the Calpamos in previous post puts out 30-35Hz only from reflex ports, so expect high distortion! Typically bass is mixed in middle of stereo, so both speakers play it, this helps too.

Typical bass drum hit is however around 50Hz and pop/rock/reggae/dance hardly ever has high intensity below 50Hz, because this way people don't break their speakers so easily at parties. Syntehetic modern disco mixes might contain lower rumble, dunno for sure...

Mixing Bass |
7 Tips for Mixing the Low End
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Old 4th March 2019, 06:24 PM   #22
Kjeldsen is offline Kjeldsen  Denmark
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Dali Megaline are 2-way, but I dont know Max spl. This could be an inspiration. I use 15 inch woofer and 7 inch up firing full range. They are loud but not 114 dB ��
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Old 4th March 2019, 07:44 PM   #23
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
In a large room, 30Hz might get help from a mode. In a small room some help from pressurization with closed box driver. With eg. the Calpamos in previous post puts out 30-35Hz only from reflex ports, so expect high distortion! Typically bass is mixed in middle of stereo, so both speakers play it, this helps too.

Typical bass drum hit is however around 50Hz and pop/rock/reggae/dance hardly ever has high intensity below 50Hz, because this way people don't break their speakers so easily at parties. Syntehetic modern disco mixes might contain lower rumble, dunno for sure...

Mixing Bass |
7 Tips for Mixing the Low End
No particular reason a reflex box ought to add distortion. If anything, I'd expect cleaner sound because of reduced excursion from the LF driver.

I think this is the sort of music the original poster wants to reproduce:

YouTube (Caution - NSFW lyrics)
When the bass drops, it's a compressed 36Hz sine wave, which causes serious heat problems in a lot of drivers.

Here's another: YouTube

Modern electronic music goes all the way down, and the PA systems tasked with reproducing that stuff are usually capable of full power down to 25Hz.

FWIW, most pop music these days reaches down to the 40Hz region.

Chris
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Old 4th March 2019, 07:54 PM   #24
kipman725 is offline kipman725  United Kingdom
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Along these lines I think its possible. However much better results would be obtained using subs for <80Hz as this reduces distortions from the mid woofer.

HF: Test Bench: RCF ND950 Neodymium Compression Driver and HF950 Horn | audioXpress

Cross at 650Hz (apparently done by RCF in their speaker using this driver)

LF: Test Bench: Eighteen Sound 18iD 18-Inch Woofer | audioXpress

Only recommend up to 200 Hz but I can't see any obvious reason it would be a bad idea to use it higher in frequency apart from the the before mentioned large excursions at low frequencies causing distortion. This system would not behave as a point source as the HF and LF are not close enough together. Would need digital processing and 4 channels of amplification.
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Old 4th March 2019, 11:29 PM   #25
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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yes, the voice is cleaner in a 12" 2-way crossing at 100hz versus a double 15 crossing to a compression driver @ 750-1khz.

I don't see 117db from a 15" 2-way, I mean it is there and it will pound you more than a 12" 2-way crossed at 100hz, but dance music with sine waves, the voice will warble on the 1 or 2x15 plus compression driver.
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Old 5th March 2019, 06:37 AM   #26
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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chris661, have you played sine wave with a reflex ported peaker, at tuning or lower and 100-120dB at 1m. Turbulences are terrible, it sound is more like a car passing you 100km/h

There are calculators for this http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2...that-wont.html

http://jahonen.kapsi.fi/Audio/Papers/AES_PortPaper.pdf
http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/PORTS.pdf

"This brief analysis of the vent performance clearly indicates, that nearly all practical size vents will compress at higher SPL levels. Loudspeakers intended for high power stage applications should be give very careful consideration regarding port non-linearity. For this type of application, port compression problem will tend to further degrade system SPL, already affected by the thermal compression during prolonged stage performance."
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Last edited by Juhazi; 5th March 2019 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 5th March 2019, 07:27 AM   #27
GM is offline GM  United States
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Yeah, there's a reason the pioneers spec'd Av = Sd wherever practical, but turned around and used small vents designed to be resistive or at least tuned with damping material.

GM
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Old 5th March 2019, 07:31 AM   #28
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
chris661, have you played sine wave with a reflex ported peaker, at tuning or lower and 100-120dB at 1m. Turbulences are terrible, it sound is more like a car passing you 100km/h
Yes, I have.

The ported boxes I use have a port exit area of 0.6*Sd, and I have no problems getting 120dB 40Hz (tuning frequency) sine waves out of a single 15" cone.
When you try to reach 123dB, there's 2dB of compression so you actually get 121dB.

No bad noises, just a small loss in output.


I also accidentally ran high-power signals through the driver well below tuning. There was well over 500w going into the driver, starting at 15Hz on a fairly slow sweep. After a lot of unhappy mechanical noises from the driver, I noticed that the cone had developed some fold lines, so I had to get it reconed before I put it to use in the PA system.

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Old 5th March 2019, 09:49 AM   #29
camplo is offline camplo
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OK......
I find that with a woofer, that has a ~35 or lower Fs, decreases xmax in the area I would like to extend to. Though many of the speakers with that parameter have a f3 high than the target range, the xmax and spl, allow EQ correction to numbers like 114db at 30hz. That is fine to me. The woofer would need to be able to be crossed around 800hz though. I'm doing my best to find a driver with all of that and great transient response. Looking for suggestions!

I'm looking at the BMS 4590 as a possible top driver. Maybe the FaitalPRO HF201 or Beyma CP-750Nd

Last edited by camplo; 5th March 2019 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 5th March 2019, 09:58 AM   #30
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
from 30hz
Why try? 60Hz is well in a place where crossing or sharing can be a good thing.
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