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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:41 AM   #2961
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whgeiger
At the point of inflection the radius of curvature of both curves should match.
You once suggested to me that LeCleach was a possible termination choice. I wonder whether your goals are focussed on diffraction minimisation, where another option would be to embrace and allow but control the inevitable diffraction in other ways?
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:47 AM   #2962
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Please stop using the term "inflection point" as there's no such thing (and shouldn't be in a horn).
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:05 AM   #2963
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Interesting Mabat. However if the OS profile was convex, I'd expect that an axial ray rotated about the virtual apex of the waveguide would meet tangent to the profile at some middle point, rather than at its farther extreme. What do you think?

Last edited by AllenB; 12th September 2019 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:09 AM   #2964
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Diffraction horns have 'em
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:16 AM   #2965
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Oh yes!

The OS profile is convex. Second derivative would be zero at inflection point. It is positive everywhere, approaching zero in the limit. But it's quite obvious from a picture of a hyperbola. Joining with a clothoid (as shown), it remains convex everywhere. Convex means that any secant remains whole "above the contour".

Last edited by mabat; 12th September 2019 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:32 AM   #2966
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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From this point of view, yes, but the target wavefront impinges on the OS walls. The walls move toward the wavefront with distance, with respect to the asymptotic conical profile.
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:34 AM   #2967
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Default Danley Pure Groove impression Part I

It's a little off topic, and completely subjective; the following short impression of 2 Danley Pure Groove setups:

Room 1:
2x J1, 16x TH118, 2x TH812, 2x SBH10 en 2x SHmini.

Room 2:
2x SH96HO, 2x TH812 which were switched off.

Amplifiers: MC2 Audio E90 & E45
DSP: XTA DP-448 & DP-444


In the big main room (1) both Jericho 1s are flown from the ceiling in stereo to cover the dancefloor, as well as the balconies on the second floor.
The SBH10s and SHminis are used for infill around the bars.
This install was taken care of by the Benelux distributor of Danley Sound Labs, MC2 Audio, XTA Electronics.

I've 'experienced' the J1s and the TH118s several times before.
Last saturday I decided to walk around and also listen upstairs, without earplugs (for short periods).
The party wasn't crowded compared to previous events, it made walking across the room much easier and also seemed to have a positive effect on overall soundquality.

First off, the J1 is one of the biggest Danley Synergy horns and according to Danley's website: "The loudest reference monitor ever created",
The J1-94 houses six 18 inch drivers, six 6 inch mid-range drivers and three 1.4 (BMS 4594) inch high frequency drivers, enough to produce >145 dB SPL.
1 Danley Jericho beats out the competition's 12 box line array.


It's quite special to experience these beasts during a live DJ performance, because in this club the J1s won't be used even close to the maximum output capability. The DJ played a wide variety of electronic music, including some tracks containing acoustic instruments and vocals. I heard a remix of Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, as well as Kraftwerk's the Model.
While I prefer not to leave my ears unprotected for more than 5-10 minutes, the SPL in the room doesn't seem very high, due to the available headroom and subsequently low distortion levels.
Coverage is adequate for this (former) theatre. The sweetspot is large, obviously located around the center of the dancefloor.
Only if you're considerably off-axis you'll notice the loss of mid/highs.

Contrary to previous expectations, the Jericho's don't sound harsh at all. I guess the available headroom is a major contributing factor, as well as proper EQ-ing of the system.

The Jericho's sound like gigantic fullrange hifi loudspeakers. There's no typical horn signature to speak of. However, I don't think you could compare these beasts to large format studio monitors, because the SPL requirements are vastly different.
I am sure the Jericho's outperform many line arrays, because of the fullrange concept and point source nature. There's a surprisingly even distribution across the room and high levels of intelligibility/imaging/depth, which culiminates into a 'homogenic sonic picture'

Upstairs, at the front end of one of the balconies - only a few meters from the J1s - the SPL doesn't seem much higher compared to elsewhere in the room. In short, the Jericho's coverage is very consistent with distance. For those who haven't heard these yet: they do live up to the hype and expectations.

The lack of harshness is most surprising, considering those 3 BMS Coaxials spitting into the trapezium shaped, HOM generating combiner throat.
I have to admit, the combination of 3x BMS Coaxials, 6 compression loaded (sealed back) 6" drivers and 6x 18" doesn't make much sense. Apparently, it works and quite wonderfully so. I believe the J1 is among Tom Danley's personal favorites and I can see why.

The J1s may not be the most refined fullrange speakers on the market, their overall performance is very impressive. Used fullrange they are specified for 40-20k. The 18s would probably take some boosting of the low end in smaller venues.

The TH118s and TH812s are perfect companions to the Jerichos.
As mentioned by others, the tapped horns are louder than they appear.
They do a good job in pressurizing the room and completely lack the 'one note bass' syndrom. Instead there's a lot of tonality, definition and a sense of air in the bass/midbass.
Attached Images
File Type: png Pure Groove Kantine.png (729.4 KB, 162 views)
File Type: jpg 150826043-de-marktkantine-(1)-2 (2).jpg (593.5 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg De-Marktkantine-1 (1).jpg (185.7 KB, 180 views)
File Type: jpg 60537827_147296873063482_2768695831570061022_n.jpg (173.7 KB, 160 views)
File Type: jpg Fig1JerichoDanley.jpg (109.0 KB, 155 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 12th September 2019 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:45 AM   #2968
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
From this point of view, yes, but the target wavefront impinges on the OS walls. The walls move toward the wavefront with distance, with respect to the asymptotic conical profile.
I'm not sure I completely follow but once the mouth is big enough the only thing you care about is to ensure a smooth termination to mitigate further diffraction.
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Old 12th September 2019, 08:02 AM   #2969
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabat View Post
but once the mouth is big enough
I suppose, yes.
Quote:
the only thing you care about is to ensure a smooth termination to mitigate further diffraction.
I think it should also be about how. If the wavefront doesn't "let go" of the walls then it can widen.

Since there is no natural termination for conical style horns, any attempt is already an independent mission.
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Old 12th September 2019, 08:10 AM   #2970
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Do you have any example of a wavefront not "letting go" of the walls? It's quite imaginary to me.
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