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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:33 PM   #2951
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phase_accurate View Post
There is something of which I am still unsure what is causing it: Where does the waistbanding effect of waveguides and horns come from ? Is it caused by a ring-shaped (or whatever the mouth shape of the device is) virtual secondary sound-source caused by diffraction at the mouth ?

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Charles
That's correct.
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:36 PM   #2952
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by silverprout View Post
The old classics are much better (TAD, ALTEC, JBL...)
It is hard to beat the highly refined capabilities of the classic 15" woofer designs. It has withstood the test-of-time and come through with flying colors. To me, the 15" is the sweat spot for a great loudspeaker. The 18's just don't seem to be as good in general, and 12s don't have enough directivity for a good polar match to a high DI waveguide.
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:49 PM   #2953
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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A proper roundover would largely mitigate, or eliminate the waistbanding, I assume?
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:29 PM   #2954
silverprout is online now silverprout  France
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
It is hard to beat the highly refined capabilities of the classic 15" woofer designs. It has withstood the test-of-time and come through with flying colors. To me, the 15" is the sweat spot for a great loudspeaker. The 18's just don't seem to be as good in general, and 12s don't have enough directivity for a good polar match to a high DI waveguide.
It is a very unusual application but it should help a little i think.

Blue 24in 100Gr paper straight cone 60° free air dipole at 30cm
Red 24in 200Gr paper straight cone 60° free air dipole at 30cm

Click the image to open in full size.

PS : REW traces colors are beautifull
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:18 PM   #2955
whgeiger is offline whgeiger  United States
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Originally Posted by mabat View Post
If you intended just that, then I don't understand why you called it an inflection point.
Early morning errant word choice. So what?
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Curvatures of both segments will match at this junction, i.e. it should be smooth enough. There's no need to go for splines as I have it already working as it is. Is it possible to do it a bit differently? Of course it is. Will it be any noticeably better? Please show me that.
Using an unifying, but flexible fairness curve, should expand the investigatory domain and reduce design iteration cycle times. Will this methodology deliver an optimized acoustic horn design? As demonstrated by the article provided earlier, the answer to this question is a most likely yes.
Quote:
- It was year 2013. So where are all the waveguides terminated by Euler spiral segment?
I am not in the horn design and manufacturing business at the moment. If I were, you would see a lot of C-Bézier horns in the marketplace and details concerning the design methodology used, would remain undisclosed.
WHG

Last edited by whgeiger; 12th September 2019 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:42 PM   #2956
whgeiger is offline whgeiger  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Agreed.
>snip<
This is true, but I am unclear why it is beneficial. Below a modes cutoff this diffractions does not propagate, but above any modes cutin, this internal diffraction becomes a Higher order mode which does propagate. HOMs are not beneficial.
The benefit is provided by the curvature decline. WHG
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:47 PM   #2957
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by whgeiger View Post
The benefit is provided by the curvature decline. WHG
Sorry Bill, I don't follow what you mean.
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Old 12th September 2019, 07:50 PM   #2958
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverprout View Post
It is a very unusual application but it should help a little i think.

Blue 24in 100Gr paper straight cone 60° free air dipole at 30cm
Red 24in 200Gr paper straight cone 60° free air dipole at 30cm

Click the image to open in full size.

PS : REW traces colors are beautifull

24" with 100g cone, must be a vintage driver?
The 200g cone is the same driver with added mass?
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Old 12th September 2019, 08:11 PM   #2959
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whgeiger View Post
Using an unifying, but flexible fairness curve, should expand the investigatory domain and reduce design iteration cycle times. Will this methodology deliver an optimized acoustic horn design? As demonstrated by the article provided earlier, the answer to this question is a most likely yes.
I woudn't say I share your conclusion. In the paper you referenced they optimized for two fixed control points on the contour. How would you know if the optimum found is a global one, no matter where and how many points you would choose? It's actually still quite limited result and in principle will allways be - it would take a heck of a time to go through all possibilities.

The most time consuming part is the actual simulation run, not the way how you get the contours under test. I'm quite willing to incorporate an import function of an arbitrary countour curve (as a text file) to my program that generates a BEM project that can be run on a readily available freeware simulator. Anyone could easily test their favourite profile. That would be a nice contest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by whgeiger View Post
I am not in the horn design and manufacturing business at the moment. If I were, you would see a lot of C-Bézier horns in the marketplace and details concerning the design methodology used, would remain undisclosed.
That's quite a bold statement.

Last edited by mabat; 12th September 2019 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 08:18 PM   #2960
whgeiger is offline whgeiger  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Sorry Bill, I don't follow what you mean.
Compared to other horns, OS horns have a throat profile of declining curvature, the rest have increasing curvature throughout their length; or none at all, as in the case of the (asymptotic) conical horn. Other means of wave spreading include sharp diffraction edges, 'speed bumps' (JBL), and dispersive acoustic lenses and reflectors which produce all sorts of (non-beneficial) response anomalies. WHG

Last edited by whgeiger; 12th September 2019 at 08:23 PM.
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