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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 31st March 2019, 07:24 PM   #251
camplo is offline camplo
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I think we've been down this road, discussing this horn in particular or one that was slightly smaller.

GM said "
Quote:
+1, just doing a quickie 'ballpark' assessment...

+1, just doing a quickie 'ballpark' assessment assuming wall angles are actually 90x40, then using 10^6/[angle*width], ~740 Hz x 2841 Hz with a mouth cutoff = ~246 Hz, axial length = ~372 Hz, so...
So i seems it will load just fine but not so much directional control. Maybe GM can provide some clarity.

I found it, "Goldwood GM-450PB" was the horn being discussed. The horn I've chosen above is also spec'd to run down to 500hz and is a better horn.


I think I have found a winning combo.....I could play with the Xover between 500hz and 800hz. If I don't like it in a two configuration, I can add a mid to lower the xover on the AE15h.....I don't see a CD with a smooth frequency response, if you have a suggestion, now would be the time. I'm getting anxious to make a purchase! I'm confused on how to power the CD since it only needs a few watts. The CTS 4200 4 channel amp is what I was considering, just in case I need 4 channels to run a mid and high. Complete over kill wattage wise.

DSP - Dbx driverack pa2 or dB-Mark XCA26. The Latter has higher resolution sampling. The former has more eq control, leaning towards the Db-mark.

Last edited by camplo; 31st March 2019 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:08 PM   #252
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I know I know, but at least I am taking my time...
I'm stuck on whether to go with the Radian 745ne or the 951
If I'm trying to create a linear response curve which would be best?
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:38 PM   #253
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Old 2nd April 2019, 12:48 AM   #254
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
GM said "

So i seems it will load just fine but not so much directional control. Maybe GM can provide some clarity.

I don't see a CD with a smooth frequency response

I'm confused on how to power the CD since it only needs a few watts.
Hmm, thought I pretty much said it all here, so please clarify your 'clarity'. : Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?

Compression drivers are inherently under damped since the horn is inherently over damped and when properly designed as a system tend to be nominally flat over its gain BW. The 'squiggles' in the response are normally due to various reflections, discontinuities in the design, but once done right, look at how smooth, etc., Dr. Geddes's WG systems are both on and off axis.

The horns you chose will need plenty of terminus/mouth damping due to its abrupt termination to minimize the worst of them.

I'm totally out of date re amp selection, but way back when, the problem was that SS amps driven at tiny fractions of its rated power tended to be non-linear with a layer of grunge [for lack of a better description], so what I did was preload the amp with a ~ matching resistance to both force the amp to become more of a current source and help pad the horn as a compromise to running a high output impedance tube amp.

With horns this can work with up to ~80-100 W, but the kind of power folks use today, best to bi-amp using an amp size suitable for the needs of the app, i.e. don't buy based on driver rating unless you're sure you need it and in either case double it with a soft limiter to ensure it likely won't hit any sort of hard limiter in the amp that might damage the driver [assuming this is still an issue].

This may be of some help: Gain Structure for Home Theater: Getting the Most from Pro Audio Equipment in Your System - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

GM
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:33 AM   #255
cspieker is offline cspieker  United States
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As for amplification. I have tried : gainclone, creek 4330, class d amplifier boards that used to be available to stack on top of the minidsp board, other class d boards, and the zen triode from decware. The zen triode trounced everything i had heard before. But it's only 2.3 watts. At 110db/W/m that's enough for me, might not be for everyone.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 05:04 PM   #256
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Quote:
90x40, then using 10^6/[angle*width], ~740 Hz x 2841 Hz with a mouth cutoff = ~246 Hz, axial length = ~372 Hz, so...
GM
How'd you calculate the 246hz and 372hz?
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Old 18th April 2019, 02:03 AM   #257
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So here is what I think has shown itself as a viable solution thanks to the help of a friend here on the board.
Jbl 2451 + 2384 waveguide + aquaplas titanium diaphram

I'm looking for the polars of the waveguide, haven't found any yet. Long term goal would be to end up with beryllium diaphragms but only if I was not satisfied.

Anyone think I am making the wrong move? The only other option I see is a Radian 951. I'm almost certain the Radian 951 is pretty much a remake of the large Jbls like the 2451, but I can find the 2451 for half the price and still save after buying new diaphragms. The 2384 is the best 1.5" horn I can find thus far.
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Old 18th April 2019, 04:24 AM   #258
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
GM
How'd you calculate the 246hz and 372hz?
~SoS/perimeter of mouth flange [2*L+W]

~SoS/4/D

SoS = varies from ~1125 - 1130 ft/sec depending on who you ask; I use 1130 = 13560", Hornresp = 344 m/sec = ~1128.61 ft/sec = 13543.31"

Again, all just approximate since mouth end correction + any horn depth built into the compression driver + any baffle loading will lower these frequencies a bit.

GM
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Old 18th April 2019, 04:30 AM   #259
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Thanks for that Gm
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Old 18th April 2019, 04:37 AM   #260
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
Jbl 2451 + 2384 waveguide + aquaplas titanium diaphram

I'm looking for the polars of the waveguide, haven't found any yet.

Anyone think I am making the wrong move?
They are shown the traditional way as part of the speaker system: https://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttach...S4722_0509.pdf

Dunno, you were wanting a 500 Hz XO, but the horn doesn't appear to be rated for it if the 4722 is any indication.

What woofer did you choose?

GM
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