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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 29th August 2019, 11:27 PM   #2431
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
We know that lighter cones add efficiency, but they tend to "loose-it" faster and harder so they are hard to take up to 1 kHz. The heavier cone B&C are very well controlled in this region. And there is absolutely no way that one cannot use the frequency response at the high end of the woofer as part of the crossover. I don't like the low mass woofer cones.
Here we will have to agree to partly disagree, I guess.
The TBX100 is indeed well controlled up to 1000Hz, but the PLB76's extended bandwith provides additional leeway wrt the crossover.

While the TBX100 is better >500Hz than the BG100 (shown before), I would personally prefer the PLB76 to both.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 15TBX100_8Ω_Pagina_1.jpg (251.4 KB, 196 views)
File Type: jpg 15TBX100_8Ω_Pagina_2.jpg (365.1 KB, 201 views)
File Type: jpg 15PLB76_8Ω_Pagina_1.jpg (215.5 KB, 207 views)
File Type: jpg 15PLB76_8Ω_Pagina_2.jpg (364.7 KB, 194 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 29th August 2019 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 29th August 2019, 11:46 PM   #2432
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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@moray np. Spent 10 years in Calgary, love the Bow River!

@camplo Some food for thought. The monster JBL cabs I have with the dual 15" are tuned to 40 Hz and with a little DSP can get a but lower, but not much being ported. Really stiff cones and some serious output - drums sound like drums when turned up - great transient output. I have an acoustic drum kit in the same room.

But the very bottom octave was missing and I thought to add a couple of subs. I went with dual Rythmik L12 entry level so if I did not like them, I could either sell them or pair them with my Kef LS50's in a 2nd system.

As it turns out, loved them. Added such weight to the sound that I decided to upgrade to a pair of F18's to keep up with the JBL ported bass cabs.

Here is the measured difference between the JBL bass cabs by themselves and then integrated with dual subs:

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?-jbl-4722-bass-cabs-blue-purple-plus-rythmik-dual-f18-subs-red-green-jpg

The only other 15" driver and cab combo I have seen in a 2 way that actually really makes it to 20 Hz is the JBL M2. Mind you there is quite a bit of eq on the production versions.

As mentioned in the link above, even Michael with the M2's opted for 4 subs. And since the release of the M2's JBL has added a companion sub for the M2's.

I know it is no longer a 2 way, but depending on the type of music you listen to and if you truly want 20 Hz to 20 kHz performance...
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Old 30th August 2019, 12:21 AM   #2433
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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That's impressive Mitch!
The Red and Green extend to <10Hz???

In my country, the blue curve would suffice to shake the walls and terrorize the neighbours.


A short follow-up on my previous post:
The TBX100 is obviously a well engineered woofer, with all the bells and whistles for HQ, high SPL PA use.
It does need some power to come to life though.
The PLB76's higher efficiency (and sensitivity) is a better match to low watt (high-end) amplifiers.

Last edited by Ro808; 30th August 2019 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 30th August 2019, 01:01 AM   #2434
Brett is offline Brett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
The Red and Green extend to <10Hz???
At not much actual SPL as the Rhythmics don't have much volume displacement. Then factor in Fletcher Munson...
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Old 30th August 2019, 01:21 AM   #2435
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Indeed.
I failed to notice.

Last edited by Ro808; 30th August 2019 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 30th August 2019, 02:51 AM   #2436
camplo is offline camplo
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Here’s a thing. Open baffle sub vs closed/ported.
It seems that because the sub bass waves are so big, they come across as being omnidirectional. Is that true enough that the two types of implications are at least very similar?
I ask because some one spoke up a Linkwitz Riley sub design as being their preference, just wondering if an open baffle sub could suffice in my set up. Open baffle speakers are not used in the studio typically, since they are so room stimulating. My thinking was that sub bass frequency was really no different in comparison no matter the source, unless speaking of horns.
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Old 30th August 2019, 03:12 AM   #2437
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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That's a question for the OB freaks, camplo. My experience with OB is close to zero.
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Old 30th August 2019, 03:46 AM   #2438
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
That's impressive Mitch!
The Red and Green extend to <10Hz???

In my country, the blue curve would suffice to shake the walls and terrorize the neighbours.
Yes, f3 is 6 Hz in my room. Can make the foundation shake. The measurement was taken at reference level ~83 dB SPL at the listening position some 3 meters away.

See CEA 2010 Max passing SPL: Rythmik Audio &bull; 18" servo subwoofer F18

X 2 subs is more than enough for peak reference music level (not LFE) i.e. 105 dB SPL at 20 Hz, not including room gain. If I wanted more, I would have gone with the vented version, but in practice, this is more than enough for clean concert level at home.
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Old 30th August 2019, 03:53 AM   #2439
camplo is offline camplo
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I didnt mean to steam roll past your post Mitchba, just trying to keep the energy flowing into my last post.
The links you posted are awesome and your system is awesome and you are awesome too
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Old 30th August 2019, 03:55 AM   #2440
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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Hmmm............

with numbers like that on the sealed rhythmic (F3 near 31, F9 near 20hz), those are almost identical to the 15" Dayton rss390hf sealed (4.4ft3), and 200w (assuming no loss) makes for 102db@20hz.

Now do 2 daytons in push-pull (slot loaded) for +6db, F3 still 31hz, but 108db@20hz, wow.
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