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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 22nd August 2019, 08:38 AM   #2341
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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I would be in.

Spherical horn for a 1.5" jbl throat, maybe 5.5" deep.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 03:49 AM   #2342
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
Mitchba, I haven’t checked out your link just yet, not to ask anything redundant. Can you describe the top register of your expression with the 4” aquaplas diaphragm. How would you compare it toke wise to some of the other tweeter options (dome, ribbon).

I have high hopes, the aquaplas has been described to be close enough to the performance of beryllium not warrant the cost of such, while requiring less eq in the top register and being the most damped option as well.

Norman 23” jmlc, you can see an example on auto tech or search this thread for actual pictures
camplo, the response in the top octave is extended, but a bit ragged, which can be smoothed out with eq. I get to -3 dB at 20 kHz. Thankfully it is a low distortion device, so sounds detailed and smooth. You can hear the comparo to the Kef's in the link.

I am sure I linked this before, but member notnyt measured and compared a bunch of JBL CD's, including one with Be dia loaded: Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 129 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

I am happy with the response with the 2453H-SL. Now if I can only find a better waveguide
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Old 23rd August 2019, 06:22 AM   #2343
plasnu is online now plasnu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
Can you describe the top register of your expression with the 4” aquaplas diaphragm. How would you compare it toke wise to some of the other tweeter options (dome, ribbon).
Based on my experience with Kinoshita (Beryllium) and JBL (Aquaplas), I would say the strength of the 4” Aquaplas is not the top octave.

Aquaplas diaphragm has a distinctive tight sound due to its damped metal structure, and its top is less bright and less airly than the other metal diaphragm drivers, including uncoated titanium and Beryllium. The good thing about it is, it has less metal signature, slightly a bit more paper like, so the transition to the paper cone woofer is more natural than the other metal diaphragms to my ears. I feel that TAD Beryllium is cleaner and airlier, and has almost no signature by itself, but it's midrange is less meaty than Aquaplas. I think some would say Beryllium horn driver has the same signature as Beryllium / Diamond dome tweeters.

Ribbon is also clean ands airly. I have seen many people add ribbon super tweeter to Aquaplas, and I think its pretty reasonable. Softdome is always great, nothing wrong, a little boring nice guy.

Last edited by plasnu; 23rd August 2019 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:31 AM   #2344
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Plasnu, that's a nice description.
Never did a direct comparison, but yours makes perfect sense.

Jzagaja experimented with Aquaplas on cheap 3" Titanium diaphragms in the past .

Sometimes, the 'body' and paper like signature of Aquaplas may even be preferable to the transparancy of Beryllium.
For example if you listen to less then stellar recordings at higher SPLs.

Last edited by Ro808; 23rd August 2019 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:32 AM   #2345
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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In 2011 Al Klappenberger (ALK engineering) tested some drivers to be used with the Eliptrac 400 horn, including the FaitalPRO HF200.

I suspect his findings have contributed to the popularity of Faital drivers in the US.

"The mic was setup 2 feet from the mouth, level up to 105 dB SPL with a 400 Hz tone. The analyzer computed the harmonic distortion at -38dB. That's only 1.26% harmonic distortion!
Next I reduced the level need to make 105 dB at 2 feet by 10 dB and lowered the tone to 200 Hz. That is roughly what the level would be through a 12 dB / octave filter with the woofer generating the tone at 105 dB. The level out of the driver dropped to 63 dB SPL with the second harmonic down about 15 dB lower. That's 17.8 % distortion but the level is so low it would not be noticed!"

Quite impressive I would think.
Attached Images
File Type: gif HF200_Distortion.gif (13.9 KB, 239 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 23rd August 2019 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:49 PM   #2346
camplo is offline camplo
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Thank you so much, Mitchba and Plasnu. I still believe I will be satisfied with my choices so far. I am just so curious about beryllium...the lack of a signature, per say, is an attractive trait for any driver driver. I can afford $700/pc .... I just don't see the value, especially when aquaplas has advantages like dampening and match-ability to paper woofer.

Speaking of tweeters, the krk's I have, are using this kevlar dome tweeter and I reeeaaallly like it! It sounds in between a ribbon and a silk dome.

What is this.....3 months now? The TD15m is honestly my choice woofer, I hope he is able to get everything proper.

Here's a question....In light of being able to get the woofers in 16ohm....I was big on running the amps in 16ohms...with the idea of being to lower distortion, but I recall someone suggesting running the woofers in parallel, to 8 ohms, which would increase the drivers sensitivity? Is that true? What do you guys think you would do?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:57 PM   #2347
camplo is offline camplo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
IMHO, the magic is in the waterfall plots, compression and FR

Regardless of technology, my ears prefer the smoothest FR and lowest stored energy in the audible range, along with a lack of compression throughout my listening range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieM View Post
I agree with this. In the same vein, the best overall non hornloaded tweeter I've heard is a compression driver with no horn. There are tweeters that are slightly smoother and extend higher but the headroom and low frequency capabilities can't be compared.

Interesting quotes from this thread beryllium diaphragm VS titanium diaphragm

Last edited by camplo; 23rd August 2019 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:08 PM   #2348
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
Here's a question....In light of being able to get the woofers in 16ohm....I was big on running the amps in 16ohms...with the idea of being to lower distortion, but I recall someone suggesting running the woofers in parallel, to 8 ohms, which would increase the drivers sensitivity? Is that true? What do you guys think you would do?
Short answer.. if you have a pre-made Voltage source amp, have it run out of Voltage before it runs out of current. You'll either need experienced ears or test equipment to work this out.. Otherwise, an amp can be made to suit any load.
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Old Yesterday, 03:59 AM   #2349
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
running the woofers in parallel, to 8 ohms, which would increase the drivers sensitivity? Is that true? What do you guys think you would do?
I forget and don't have Excel loaded, but you can do it here: Efficiency and sensitivity conversion - loudspeaker percent and dB per watt and meter loudspeaker efficiency versus sensitivity vs speaker sensitivity 1 watt = 2,83 volt box chart - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin

16 ohms since the less current the VC draws, the lower its potential thermal power distortion assuming you're not driving them WFO all the time in which case you should design the cab alignment for it.

GM
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Last edited by GM; Yesterday at 04:03 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 07:47 PM   #2350
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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For someone who's considering building a 2-way, or on the lookout for a pair of 2" drivers, this isn't a bad deal at all.
2" exit version of the HF144:
Attached Images
File Type: png 2x Faital HF204.png (85.9 KB, 67 views)

Last edited by Ro808; Yesterday at 07:51 PM.
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