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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:23 PM   #2061
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabat View Post
In the next release of my tool you will be able to do that
Your tool is a great gift to the community.
I know you've put a lot of time and effort into STH/ATH.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:43 PM   #2062
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barossi
What about Mr Don Keele's electro voice horns like HR 6040A or the famous HR 9040A?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808
These represent the acme of CD horn design IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
What do you mean by "acme"? To me we have moved way past those older designs.

A(nother) quote:

"Modern constant directivity horn design started with the work of D. B. (Don) Keele, Jr., John Gilliom, and Ray Newman at Electrovoice in the middle of the 1970s. Their work introduced the features that are the central methods for controlling directivity in all current horn design.

Their first design idea was a contraction in the throat immediately following the driver. This detail is emphasized in the White horn series they designed; however, the idea predates this horn (Keele, 1983). The narrow throat allowed the use of a larger driver and improved the directional control by letting the sound illuminate the sides of the horn, without the high-frequency beaming usually associated with larger throat sizes.
The second feature was a conical-exponential (CE) throat shape, which consisted of an exponential throat over a certain distance, after which there was a smooth transition into a conical (straight-sided) shape. The combination of these two curves allowed the control of low-frequency impedance by the use of the quasi-exponential throat expansion, and still maintained excellent directional coverage afforded by the conical shape of the sides.
The third step the group took was to address the problem of mid-range narrowing, present in most horns before this design. Their approach was to flare the mouth of the horn at a point, which was about two-thirds the distance from the beginning of the conical section to the mouth. The flare was added at an angle, which was about twice the angle of the original conical section. The added flare resulted in the high frequencies seeing one mouth size and the lower frequencies seeing another. The flare also allowed the transition between the horn mouth and the surrounding air to be less abrupt. The sound pressure distribution across the mouth of the horn was no longer constant but was higher in the center of the horn. The horn mouth no longer looked like a pure piston in a baffle and as a result the frequency narrowing problems (predicted by the piston model) that were associated with previous designs were no longer present.

The White horn series was highly successful. The design gave good horizontal directivity control without the mid-frequency beaming that had been associated with most previous horns. The vertical frequency control was not emphasized in the design in favor of a smaller vertical dimension. This shows the design tradeoff that is made between horn mouth height and the capability of controlling the vertical directivity over a wide range of frequencies. Because the vertical dimension of the mouth is relatively small, the frequency at which the vertical control begins is rather high—1.2 kHz. The White horn series was the first commercial product to be a true constant-directivity type."
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Last edited by Ro808; 14th August 2019 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:01 PM   #2063
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Terminology. Smooth diffraction slot could be in phase plug - from circle to rectangle.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg radial (1).jpg (86.8 KB, 185 views)
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:02 PM   #2064
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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We'll have to print one for the HF1440

"The driver's exit coincides with the end of the phase plug, there is no adaptation throat."

Or just integrate the slot/throat adapter into the phase plug...

Last edited by Ro808; 14th August 2019 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 15th August 2019, 12:22 AM   #2065
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Ideally, such a phase plug would be simulated in the 'virtual' driver which is mounted to the (specific) horn.
This is how the big loudspeaker manufacturers develop their drivers and horns.
The driver in this case, is not your average lumped parameter/elements model, but an exact replica of the real thing.
For this reason, such models rarely leave the company, because in the wrong hands, these facilitate re-engineering.

Below is an example. It (still) looks sophisticated, but it's actually outdated.


Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Ro808; 15th August 2019 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 15th August 2019, 12:31 AM   #2066
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
A(nother) quote:

"Modern constant directivity horn design started with the work of D. B. (Don) Keele, Jr., John Gilliom, and Ray Newman at Electrovoice in the middle of the 1970s.
"Modern"? 1970's - I'd really call that (well known, but outdated) "history." Everything has changed since back then.
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Old 15th August 2019, 01:26 AM   #2067
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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There's no denying the progress of (scientific) research in this field and your contribution to this.

The point of the quote is to illustrate the relevance of the white horns in historical perspective.
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:04 AM   #2068
tuyen is online now tuyen  Australia
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So what is the ultimate 'modern' designed horn to use for a 'big' 2-way setup (ie. to pair with 1x or 2x 15" bass drivers running upto 500-800hz)?
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:13 AM   #2069
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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If you shop smart, the driver + horn shown in the pressure propagation .gif can be had for a just over €100, instead of > €350.

These were developed by a guy who also co-designed drivers and horns for FaitalPro and 18Sound.
Therefore, I expect the LTH142 and XT1464 would also work well with this driver.


The mesh that was used for the sims + specsheets:
Attached Images
File Type: png Mesh.png (94.4 KB, 135 views)
File Type: jpg FMJ-60Daisy_datasheet.jpg (635.6 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg PR614_datasheet.jpg (641.6 KB, 90 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 15th August 2019 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:31 AM   #2070
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuyen View Post
So what is the ultimate 'modern' designed horn to use for a 'big' 2-way setup (ie. to pair with 1x or 2x 15" bass drivers running upto 500-800hz)?
There's no such thing as 'ultimate' or 'one size fits all' in audio

It depends on your objectives/preferences, room, cabinet, compression driver etc. and budget vs ability to DIY.

If you want my opinion:
- For 800Hz, I would consider a (OS) waveguide
- For 500Hz, I would gravitate toward the (prototype) horns that jzagaya posted.
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