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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 18th March 2019, 12:39 PM   #121
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
...Iím just wondering what Iíd have to gain by using a coaxial CD since there plenty of single voice coil CDís that cover 500hz to 20khz. Intermodulation distortion vs adding another crossover? I was told a quality CD can handle the range specified without breaking a sweat. Can any one concur?
Yes, my dual tone measurements show 15-25 dB lower amplitudes on the sidebands than with direct radiators. Horn-loaded diaphragms move about 1/5th the peak-to-peak distance than direct radiating drivers for the same output SPL, and IMD is strongly a function of the peak-to-peak level.

The reason for dual-diaphragm compression drivers in my view is to address non-pistonic diaphragm breakup modes above 10 kHz of dome-type diaphragms. This is usually an issue with titanium and aluminum diaphragm compression drivers.

Chris
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Old 18th March 2019, 12:58 PM   #122
camplo is offline camplo
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Well thank you for clearing that up. I did my best to compare the BMS coaxials to the Radian drivers and came up short, outside of a few personal recommendations for Radian and a review suggesting that Radian is better brand but unjustifiable by cost.
I'm guessing the break up would show in the form of heightened THD to which I have not found a distortion graph for Radian yet.
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Old 18th March 2019, 01:26 PM   #123
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Nice review of the radian 950 I’m considering
Test Bench: Radian Audio Engineering 950PB and 760NEOPB Compression Drivers | audioXpress
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Old 18th March 2019, 01:43 PM   #124
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Originally Posted by camplo View Post
I'm guessing the break up would show in the form of heightened THD to which I have not found a distortion graph for Radian yet.
I usually look at a spectrogram of the 10-20 kHz region (SPL vs. freq. vs. time). It's usually quite easy to spot there, especially if you use a bit higher SPL (90-100 dB at 1m). Below you see a spectrogram of a P.Audio BM-D750 driver (rebranded as a Klipsch K-69-A) on a K-402 horn, showing the distinctive 13.8 kHz non-pistonic breakup mode, above which you also see a phase lag, chattering echoes across the 8-20 kHz band, and loss of SPL above the breakup mode frequency:

Chris
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File Type: jpg P.Audio BM-D750 Series I Spectrogram.jpg (231.7 KB, 318 views)

Last edited by Cask05; 18th March 2019 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 18th March 2019, 01:55 PM   #125
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Here's the same plot settings for a Radian 950PB (aluminum diaphragm) on a K-402 horn, microphone also at 1m on-axis:

Chris
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File Type: jpg Radian 950PB Spectrogram.jpg (232.2 KB, 326 views)
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Old 18th March 2019, 02:02 PM   #126
ErnieM is offline ErnieM  United States
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Not bad for a 4" aluminium alloy dome against a 3" titanium one.
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Old 18th March 2019, 02:04 PM   #127
kipman725 is offline kipman725  United Kingdom
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Hi Chris, what software are you using to generate these plots?
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Old 18th March 2019, 02:12 PM   #128
peterbrorsson is offline peterbrorsson  Sweden
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Old 18th March 2019, 02:27 PM   #129
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Originally Posted by kipman725 View Post
Hi Chris, what software are you using to generate these plots?
Room EQ Wizard, V5.20 Beta 6. There are options for scale: flipping the axes so that the vertical axis is frequency, dark background, etc.

Last edited by Cask05; 18th March 2019 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 18th March 2019, 03:43 PM   #130
cspieker is online now cspieker  United States
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Originally Posted by camplo View Post

Moray James - I hear what you are saying but there isn't a system that stays completely co-axial that is going to get me into a sub range. So a two-way or FAST speaker is the only option.

...unless someone knows something that I don't, now would be the time to speak up. I can't get a CD to run to say 150hz, .

I almost hate to bring this up at this point after you've settled on a very nice solution, but after Britt and gm recommend a synergy build, I've spent the last two days reading everything I could find about the different synergy options. I have to say that I find Chris's to look the most promising and it will probably be my next build. 150 hz directivity with a point source, using compression driver for tweeter, it's pretty much exactly what you are asking for. The only disadvantage I see is lower sensitivity on the cd means my beloved 2w set will no longer be an option, and build complexity is high.

A K-402-Based Full-Range Multiple-Entry Horn - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
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