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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 12th July 2019, 07:37 PM   #1271
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Some (translated) quotes from magazines:

"Heiner Basil Martion did not suspect that three years would pass until he finally found a suitable replacement in a RCF 15 bass driver with Sandwich Composite Membrane and Neodymium Magnet, when the old chassis manufacturer discontinued production of the bass drivers. The new bass chassis, which is manufactured exactly like the RCF 1.5-inch high-midrange driver, with a paper diaphragm and Neodymium magnet according to Martion specifications, prompted the Berliner to revise the concept of the Bullfrog in order to increase the performance, and also carry out a facelift."

"Coaxial construction: Both the RCF 15-inch Bass drivers as well as the 1.5-inch high-frequency unit - both with sandwich composite membrane and neodymium magnet are elaborately modified by Martion. In order to achieve the lowest frequencies in the the small housing the cone is soft suspended.
The concave, twisted aluminum rings act as horn extension and serve a deeper decoupling of the horn. By the defined distance between the rings and between the rings and the case, the bass is radiated in all directions. In addition, the rings offer a practical protective function which also contributes positively to the design. They replace the ugly protective grille of the old Bullfrog."

"As before, the Bulli is a compact two-way coaxial horn speaker, which is designed as a minimum phase stable point-source with concentrically arranged drivers. The two RCF drivers are specially modified by Martion from the baskets, through the membranes to the suspensions. Of course, the designer did not want to tell me what exactly he is working on - as an innovator, he has nothing against imitators in principle, but something against copiers. So much seems to be certain: the high midrange and bass unit play five octaves each, the bass rolls off at around 680 hertz. This important transition is phase stable, so acoustically not recognizable (not even in our measurements). The high-midrange is behind the bass, the two diaphragms make the same movements for the mentioned frequency, the compression driver being used a little earlier to bridge the distance between the two drivers."

Last edited by Ro808; 12th July 2019 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 12th July 2019, 07:48 PM   #1272
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Elite View Post
believe me its the same driver and it uses the same 1.4" don't believe what they say, they are just trying to put you off copying their design. The Passive version is crossed over at 650hz to 680, I have measured it.
As mentioned I have first hand experience with them. One of the most dynamic speakers out there!

Yes, you're correct.
There appear to be some misconceptions among owners and reviewers concerning older verus current models.

Last edited by Ro808; 12th July 2019 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 12th July 2019, 07:56 PM   #1273
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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I am not particularly fond of the comp. driver, otherwise I would have been hunting for a pair of CX15N351s.

Audio Elite, do you also have polars of the Bullfrogs?

Last edited by Ro808; 12th July 2019 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 12th July 2019, 07:58 PM   #1274
Audio Elite is offline Audio Elite  South Africa
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"Coaxial construction: Both the RCF 15-inch Bass drivers as well as the 1.5-inch high-frequency unit - both with sandwich composite membrane and neodymium magnet are elaborately modified by Martion. In order to achieve the lowest frequencies in the the small housing the cone is soft suspended"

This confirms what I said, all modifications are done by Martion.
It is still the standard 1.4" comp driver though, that I promise.
I gaurantee the driver they use is standard from the factory.
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Old 12th July 2019, 08:12 PM   #1275
Audio Elite is offline Audio Elite  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
Audio Elite, do you also have polars of the Bullfrogs?
Sorry I do not. I had a pair for several months for testing in a studio and did several measurements. The engineer and I stripped them to see if there was any pixy dust going on inside and noticed nothing special. The only thing we both regret was not measuring the crossover components. One thing we both agreed on was how effortlessly they played all kinds of music.
The best combination that we heard them on in the end was a 350watt per channel Perreaux Audio Power amp and a Audio Research Ref5 Pre. The valve pre really helped the top end for smoothness and the power amp made these speakers scary dynamic at times. Roger Waters "Its a Miracle"
was something else. Everyone that heard them in my listening room was shocked and in Awe at how powerful the system played. Simply stunning!!!
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Old 12th July 2019, 08:16 PM   #1276
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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It would be cool if the ND850, or better: the ND950 could be 'glued' to a 15, or perhaps even an 18".

Audio Elite, thank you for sharing your experience with the Bullfrog.

Last edited by Ro808; 12th July 2019 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 12th July 2019, 09:47 PM   #1277
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Measurements by a German magazine, including break-up spike:
Attached Images
File Type: png Bullfrog Messwerte.png (112.3 KB, 170 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 12th July 2019 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 13th July 2019, 05:39 AM   #1278
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Elite View Post
It is still the standard 1.4" comp driver though, that I promise. I gaurantee the driver they use is standard from the factory.
Altec/GPA? Not aware of any other 1.4".

GM
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Old 13th July 2019, 08:19 AM   #1279
Audio Elite is offline Audio Elite  South Africa
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The compression driver use a 2.5-inch diaphragm with a 1.4 inch throat featuring several state of the art technologies. The diaphragm and suspension are formed from 0.05mm thick pure titanium
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Old 13th July 2019, 10:18 AM   #1280
docali is offline docali  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
Measurements by a German magazine, including break-up spike:
From which speaker are these measurements?

We see about 12dB descent from 90Hz down turning into 18dB from 50Hz on. No bass fundament at all... The frequency response taken only at 80dB Level... Huge break-up modes at HF. A very strong beaming with deep holes. The distortion curves end at 5k while fr response is shown up to 40k - why? The answer might be the steep increase of distortions at the right side.

I would not waste any money in such a design in the sense of this thread searching for a reference Monitor design.
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