+1 to that... Maybe I should just buy a phonograph horn,
So I think I'll be able to eventually settle on a horn and driver based upon the depths of this thread, though I keep eyeballing this guy Beyma TPL-150/H AMT Tweeter, I'll likely get the radian 951 (or similar) and the biggest 90X40 horn I can find. I called them several times today, no answer.
My bass amp is a crown CTS 1200.....I kinda like the quad 303 for the tops, but its not grounded....any suggestions on a grounded signaled amp for the tops....one that doesn't cost a fortune that is?
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That horn isn't difficult to clone: straight sidewalls and conical top/bottom with a large flare. I would smooth out the slot.
It's basically a triangle with a slit, through which the curved top and bottom enter the mouth.
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My local used hifi has a pair of Altec 511b for sale for 200. Think I'll try to get him to 160 or better.
Anything I should look for on the horns before pulling the trigger?
I’m not staring at the actual horn at the moment but I did notice from a picture online that the bolt pattern just has two holes, I’m guessing that I could drill the appropriate hole into the mounting
Anything I should look for on the horns before pulling the trigger?
I’m not staring at the actual horn at the moment but I did notice from a picture online that the bolt pattern just has two holes, I’m guessing that I could drill the appropriate hole into the mounting
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I JUST got the img sta-2000D in the door earlier today. It was the cheapest one I could find with Pascal power stages, and the fans will not turn on at all unless the thermal monitoring circuit measures 85c.
A bit early to say anything really, but it sounds very sweet so far!
Most people use Altec or GPA units with these, I don't think I've ever seen a Radian 950/951 bolted onto a 511B
Opinions vary on the 511B/811B horns. The metal is prone to ringing and there's also a discontinuity near the throat which may cause HOMS
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This is a clone of the Faital LTH-142.
This is a clone of the Selenium HL4750-SLF 2" Bi-Radial Horn.
I know at least two very experienced guys who like the latter horn a lot.
It's also used by G.I.P. > the Taiwanese guys known for their insanely expensive Western Electric clones.
These work best if your listening spot is about 5-6m from the speakers.
XO at 500-600Hz is possible.
This is a clone of the Selenium HL4750-SLF 2" Bi-Radial Horn.
I know at least two very experienced guys who like the latter horn a lot.
It's also used by G.I.P. > the Taiwanese guys known for their insanely expensive Western Electric clones.
These work best if your listening spot is about 5-6m from the speakers.
XO at 500-600Hz is possible.
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I finally came around to auditioning some EDM and Rap on the Altec clones and the distortion I heard in the treble was an eye opener, as well as, the lack of high end.
Is this to be expected with up to date drivers? I think it was like an altec 808 or 802 on a 811b horn.
I just looked......found this
I guess of course it sounded like it was missing treble.....it is =)
Is this to be expected with up to date drivers? I think it was like an altec 808 or 802 on a 811b horn.
I just looked......found this
I guess of course it sounded like it was missing treble.....it is =)
JBL 2543H-SL on 2384 horns are a really good combo too.. you should be able to order these as JBL spares
Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 129 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 129 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Time to slow down.
You should look into auditioning some of the nicer powered prosound speakers on the market. QSC, JBL, EV, RCF, EAW, Yamaha, Fulcrum Acoustics, and many more.
This will give you a baseline for modern drivers, horns/waveguides, DSP correction and crossovers.
You should look into auditioning some of the nicer powered prosound speakers on the market. QSC, JBL, EV, RCF, EAW, Yamaha, Fulcrum Acoustics, and many more.
This will give you a baseline for modern drivers, horns/waveguides, DSP correction and crossovers.
'Prone'?!
They ring like a 'ten penny nail struck with a ball peen hammer' and why Altec always flange mounted them with a full width 'L' shaped wood angle in/on cabs.Regardless, they were designed for PA broadcast and cinema sound back when they were only interested in 'punching' the speech BW through a screen at high intelligibility over fairly long distances and only ~11 kHz for HIFI, so while you can tweak/damp/EQ them to ~ modern HIFI, all horn gain is traded to flatten it to ~15-20 kHz.
Been there, done that and wound up making a huge rectangular conical WG based on the 1804 multi-cell's exterior dimensions loaded with dual Altec 802 drivers in a 1.5 way alignment to get 20 kHz and the 'full', etc., mids of the 805, 1005 multicells.
Definitely stick with Altec/GPA with Altec horns and best to replace any Radian replacement diaphragms.
All that said, with as little as just damping the mouth, throat and fiddling with XOs combined with CD horn EQ, one can have a very entertaining system coupled to an Altec 416 woofer with either horn, though some don't like the 1" drivers at 500 Hz, preferring 6-700 Hz for HIFI and 8-1200 Hz for DJ/prosound apps.
Altec's [rare] compromise, the 511E, was to cut off the conical 'rubber throat' and flange it for the 1.4" plus coat it in Aquaplas damping compound. EQ'd flat it was min. 96 dB eff. from ~500 - 15 kHz before 'dropping like a stone' with Altec's 288-8E and GPA 399-8A.
GM
Just wanted to express my gratitude to the board. This thread covers a lot of territory relevant to any one else who is serious about designing such a speaker. Pretty much a lot of basic ideas that need to be understood, a lot of noob questions answered, if you will.
The thread never really went sour! That requires a lot of patience, especially dealing with a person like me, who probably ask's the same question twice in two different ways XD, so, I really appreciate it!.
I have moved my attention back the coaxial compression drivers, if only to make sure the top end is easily available. I also have the Beyma Tl-150-H on the list, which is also horn loaded. The AE 18h+ should probably be on anyone's list who's looking to be spoiled by what it has to offer. I don't know if I can officially call this a WAW/FAST speaker being that it will be crossed at ~700hz, but it is at least, the result of choosing and sacrifice in order to get the best practice in the top and bottom ends with a crossover basically directly in the middle of the the musical register. So, on axis it would perform as intended and off axis, any phase cancellation will at least sound good, though, of course, in a perfect world, I'd want to get away from that. Sacrifices.
The thread never really went sour! That requires a lot of patience, especially dealing with a person like me, who probably ask's the same question twice in two different ways XD, so, I really appreciate it!.
I have moved my attention back the coaxial compression drivers, if only to make sure the top end is easily available. I also have the Beyma Tl-150-H on the list, which is also horn loaded. The AE 18h+ should probably be on anyone's list who's looking to be spoiled by what it has to offer. I don't know if I can officially call this a WAW/FAST speaker being that it will be crossed at ~700hz, but it is at least, the result of choosing and sacrifice in order to get the best practice in the top and bottom ends with a crossover basically directly in the middle of the the musical register. So, on axis it would perform as intended and off axis, any phase cancellation will at least sound good, though, of course, in a perfect world, I'd want to get away from that. Sacrifices.
Just wondering if you've checked your hearing.
I heard very well up to 18khz for a long time, then some heavy industrial noise padded it down to 16700hz in spite of lots of protective gear. Then one particular incident (asphalt saw) probably in combination with one of our daughters tendency to scream directly into our ears got it down to 13500hz. Starting to wonder if there is something else as well, sometimes it's harder to pick out particular details.
Went to one of those ear doctors once, complete waste of my time. And the listening test room was so noisy it was almost impossible to discern the difference between test tones and the background noise. Better and easier to test at home, or my brother in laws insulated recording booth.
I heard very well up to 18khz for a long time, then some heavy industrial noise padded it down to 16700hz in spite of lots of protective gear. Then one particular incident (asphalt saw) probably in combination with one of our daughters tendency to scream directly into our ears got it down to 13500hz. Starting to wonder if there is something else as well, sometimes it's harder to pick out particular details.
Went to one of those ear doctors once, complete waste of my time. And the listening test room was so noisy it was almost impossible to discern the difference between test tones and the background noise. Better and easier to test at home, or my brother in laws insulated recording booth.
I check my hearing every time I sweep a high pass on a eq while mixing or mastering. my current tweeters play to 19khz before rolling off, I actually like it, but wouldn't it to be any duller. I was trying to find reviews on BMS coaxial CD's and measurements and can't find much but I'm afraid of potential distortion int he 10khz-20khz area
Test Bench: BMS 4507ND Dual Diaphragm Coaxial Planar Wave Driver | audioXpress
In this article there is a spike at 10khz of distrotion which is very thin, but high, and then drops as sharply as it attacks but I cannot see anything above the general 10khz region<I'm kinda afraid of what might be there.
Test Bench: BMS 4507ND Dual Diaphragm Coaxial Planar Wave Driver | audioXpress
In this article there is a spike at 10khz of distrotion which is very thin, but high, and then drops as sharply as it attacks but I cannot see anything above the general 10khz region<I'm kinda afraid of what might be there.
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Aren't CDs sharply cut above ~20 kHz anyway? I know vinyl can go higher, but noise increasingly masks/dominates it, so why bother recording higher?
Seems better to design for a solid/smooth 8-16 kHz where violins peak, some other instruments have plenty of top end 'air' than make noise for noise sake.
GM
Seems better to design for a solid/smooth 8-16 kHz where violins peak, some other instruments have plenty of top end 'air' than make noise for noise sake.
GM
I use this combo crossed at 630 Hz and have similar measurements to notnyt. I feel it is pretty good sounding combo as well. I have been looking to improve on it, but so far have not been able to come up with anything that would appear to sound "substantially" better. Maybe down to one's preference for a wider directivity waveguide like the JBL M2, but then sacrificing on the lower XO point... compromises, compromises...