Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th March 2019, 03:05 PM   #111
cspieker is offline cspieker  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: South Dakota
Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
I was able to audition some altec horns today, and I can't go back now. Being that I can't cross lower than 500hz I don't see a need for a coaxial CD, which brings the Radian 950PB up to the front, being that the name came recommended and it covers the intended frequency range. The chosen horn seems to be able to load to 500hz (according to GM's calculations), though lacking directivity at that lower note, its still about the best I'll do for a decent price. The Acoustic Elegance was chosen for its specs not its name, so no reason to change. I think I've finally reached a conclusion, The only thing I want to study now is construction philosophy. I might do something weird and use a microphone stand to mount the horn to make it easily adjustable for the listener, who knows....
It's great you were able to hear the "horn sound" before committing. I think you have a very promising design started. Congrats!
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2019, 03:11 PM   #112
camplo is offline camplo
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Totally, I don’t know if it’s already been done but I’m sure there’s a proper solution.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2019, 05:29 PM   #113
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
I have a two way with 2x15" and a 1.4" CD that I regularily listen to. I don't claim it to be the last word in resolution but it is definitely fun to listen to this speaker that definitely doesn't break a sweat even with bass-heavy music at increased listening levels.
The quality of the drivers chosen by you is above the ones used in mine.

Regards

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2019, 06:01 PM   #114
moray james is offline moray james  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Quote:
Originally Posted by camplo View Post
I was able to audition some altec horns today, and I can't go back now. Being that I can't cross lower than 500hz I don't see a need for a coaxial CD,...
You are missing the point of a concentrically mounted tweeter and the integration that it brings to playback with a dramatic increase in focus and dimensionality of the music. I would recommend that you listen to an Altec 604 or better yet a Tannoy fifteen inch dual concentric which has a true dual concentric mounted tweeter system. These systems will show you what a compact wide band two way can do. They are impressive.
__________________
moray james
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2019, 06:13 PM   #115
GM is offline GM  United States
diyAudio Member
 
GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chamblee, Ga.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cspieker View Post
Since your woofer is a 15", it probably will beam a little at 500hz though.
According to Altec measurements of their deep cone drivers Vs JBL's shallow cones, a 15" 'sets' on the baffle [normally listed as 180 deg, but actually ~160 deg] till around 900 Hz and 90 deg around 1.25 kHz. Above this point, they basically track the cone's curve vs the theoretical straight line out to 40 deg/2.5 kHz with the JBL staying flat to 3.15 kHz whereas the Altec opens back up to ~50 deg.

In short, two very different cone designs 'close enough' follow piston theory out to the highest acceptable XO points for a 15", so confident it's good enough for other brands/models.

GM
__________________
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2019, 10:39 PM   #116
cspieker is offline cspieker  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: South Dakota
Thanks gm. For always sharing your relevant knowledge on everything! I'll remember that info.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2019, 03:29 AM   #117
camplo is offline camplo
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
As a general rule I take 13,550/(drivers active diameter) So to ball park it 13550/15=903hz which is a KA=1, kind of like, the point of no return with almost no directivity, according to the charts I seen and then for good measure divided that by 2 which would be 450hz, which gets past the range with absolutely no directivty, at all, so 500hz seems perfectly fine to me, for a 15" driver.

Moray James - I hear what you are saying but there isn't a system that stays completely co-axial that is going to get me into a sub range. So a two-way or FAST speaker is the only option. If you are addressing my comment regarding a coaxial CD.....I'm almost certain that a coaxial CD running from 500hz-20khz has no benefit over another qualified, no coaxial CD, that can cover 500hz-20khz....actually the extra crossover is a disadvantage and the coaxial design is to allow for a deeper driver capability that I do not care to invest in the equipment to utilize it properly, so instead of being able to cross at 300hz, or 200hz as advertised by some coaxial compression drivers, 500hz seems to be just fine for a non co-axial CD....unless someone knows something that I don't, now would be the time to speak up. I can't get a CD to run to say 150hz, to create a true FASt or WAW setup, but this is the next next thing if I want to stay the course of a CD powered system. If coaxial CD's offer a lowered intermodulation distortion, I'd definitely be all ears, to that.

Phase_accurate - Don't you think CD offer something in the terms of resolution that you cannot get from any other type of driver, because thats how I feel.

Last edited by camplo; 18th March 2019 at 03:57 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2019, 07:49 AM   #118
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
Fanatic
diyAudio Member
 
KaffiMann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grua, not far from Oslo.
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
I think your newfound love for CD's is a result of the high sensitivity.

Some big CD's work down to 600hz, and sound impressive, but those drivers sometimes need help up top.
There are some 1.4" exit drivers that can work well to 900hz.

Either way you'd be relying on some form of DSP to get sharp enough xo, to smooth out the squiggly bits, and both of the above would require a proper horn in the majority of cases. Not to mention that if you're chasing for a point source system you'd be better off looking at the various synergy designs.

In most cases involving CD's you'd end up with a 3way solution to cover the whole spectrum, pending on how low in frequency and how loud you want to go.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2019, 08:14 AM   #119
camplo is offline camplo
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
I agree. Also the directivity creates a stereo imagine that is weird good, like unexpectedly good, like 3d. I don’t think people understand that the directivity also places the source closer to your ears (seemingly) via projection kinda like wearing headphones but not? I think 500hz is a fair xover for the horn. I’m just wondering what I’d have to gain by using a coaxial CD since there plenty of single voice coil CD’s that cover 500hz to 20khz. Intermodulation distortion vs adding another crossover? I was told a quality CD can handle the range specified without breaking a sweat. Can any one concur?

Last edited by camplo; 18th March 2019 at 08:16 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2019, 10:21 AM   #120
AllenB is online now AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
I do 700Hz up on a CD. I have the waveguide sized for 700. I think intermodulation distortion is lower on my list of things to worry about.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cascode distortion Spectrum. mashaffer Tubes / Valves 34 22nd January 2017 09:37 PM
6av5ga distortion spectrum enzoastro Tubes / Valves 14 30th January 2013 06:01 PM
Distortion spectrum vs feedback artosalo Tubes / Valves 62 7th December 2011 11:51 PM
What do you look for in the distortion spectrum? keantoken Solid State 13 13th May 2009 12:06 AM
Tailoring distortion spectrum syl Solid State 14 25th March 2002 07:32 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:40 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki