Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high SPL, low distortion with a 2-way?

[Ro808]

Here is his measurements, the resistance and the reactance are out of control under 530hz... and it is a 200hz horn.

Thanks for posting, is it your own plot?

XT1464 a 200Hz horn?
It's a Tractrix, 25.7cm deep.

This enlarged XT1464 measures 585 x 428 & 368mm deep, and it's a 300Hz horn:

 

[Ro808]

They look similar, but identical, to some of the bigger EAW horns

Should be: They look similar, but NOT identical, to some of the bigger EAW horns

 

[tuyen]

I 'grew up' with 350, 500 Hz and the M19's 1200 Hz sound like mush mids to me, but is the most popular Altec by far, so what do I know.

I mean seriously; listen to one with the horn disconnected, to me it's kind of like listening to an old upright washing machine sloshing with a max load.

GM

I understand. I used to run a 4-way active horn setup including a 50hz front loaded bass horn. The bass-horn which played ~50hz to 300hz, actually made the most sonic improvement over all the other channels in terms of sonic coherency and clarity. The bass horn replaced 360L onken bass cab and also 4x AE dipole18 in open baffle bass solutions. Just had to give it up due to space constraints.. I'm sure I will eventually adjust going to a 'simple' / 'neat' 2-way high efficiency setup.

 

[Ro808]

Altec/RCF tweaking by Bruno Putzeys and Guido Tent:

 

[GM]

Should be: They look similar, but NOT identical, to some of the bigger EAW horns

 

[barossi]

Hmm, lowest is 700 Hz, so not in the same league as 500 Hz Altec/GPA, so guess an XO point needs to be spec'd.

GM

You are right but the bigger Altec motors are suffering from limited hights.
And for home use i have no doubts driving the Faitals down to 700Hz.

KR Barossi

 

[GM]

Hmm, the Altec's > 15 kHz is a few dB lower once both are EQ'd flat, but all things considered I'd rather have the lower XO and boost its extreme HF since there's nothing but top end 'air' on recordings. That Faital sure looks good on paper though!

GM

 

[Ro808]

The Faitals will do 500Hz (easily), take my word for it.
The Altecs 288-8 were specified for 500Hz at max 25 Watt.

However, if we'd use a fraction of the HF1440's 120 Watt AES power rating (> 900Hz) for playback levels at home, we'll all be screaming for mom, while the driver is just idling.

 

[Ro808]

Dr. Geddes crosses this 1.7" VC just below 1000Hz, the Faital's VC is 3.4".

 

[voodooless]

The Faitals will do 500Hz (easily), take my word for it.
The Altecs 288-8 were specified for 500Hz at max 25 Watt.

However, if we'd use a fraction of the HF1440's 120 Watt AES power rating (> 900Hz) for playback levels at home, we'll all be screaming for mom, while the driver is just idling.

My 808's are also about that with the original diaphragm. However the modern replacement have 2 to 3 times the power handling (depending on what kind of HF quality you want).

 

[silverprout]

Thanks for posting, is it your own plot?

It's Bjørn Kolbrek's measurements, i've colorized the traces.

XT1464 a 200Hz horn?

It seems to be a 400hz horn and should preferably used above 800hz.
Eighteensound XT 1464 – Thomann France

This enlarged XT1464 measures 585 x 428 & 368mm deep, and it's a 300Hz horn:

There is a bigger XT1464 ?

 

[Ro808]

It seems to be a 400hz horn and should preferably used above 800hz.
Eighteensound XT 1464 – Thomann France

That makes more sense.

There is a bigger XT1464 ?

No, it was a project on another forum a few years ago.
The XT1464 was cloned, enlarged, slightly modified and optimized in Comsol.
Intended for use with 2" exit BMS Coaxial(s).

 

[Ro808]

Some French folks have even crossed the HF10AK at 750Hz, which seems pushing the limit.

Here's a more sensible solution of a guy who replaced his Altec comp. drivers with HF10AKs, because he wanted to improve the top octave.
Crossover is 1000Hz (passive).
Cab is a Petite Onken and the little blue horn is an Audio Pavillon MA600.

 

[Ro808]

Comparison between HF10AK and TAD TD-2001 on a Markus Klug MK1010 (small multicel) and RCF H3709 (semi Altec/WE 32 clone).

5dB increments, but still...


(€137.15 = $153.82)

 

[Ro808]

For those who aren't familiar with the RCF H3709:

 

[phase_accurate]

In the current issue of the German mag Stereoplay there is a test of a new Spatial Audio dipole speaker (No 5) using the HF10AK (it does at least look that way) on an XT1086. Unfortunately I couldn't find that model on the web though. It doesn't measure that nicely in this test but I assume this is due to a simplistic crossover. When I did some casual measurements of that driver/horn combination it looked much better.

Regards

Charles

 

[Ro808]

The HF10AK's response (also in the specsheet) is among the worst of all Faital 1" drivers. It's nevertheless a very popular driver, because of its bandwith and soundquality.

I'll check the review and might cut, edit and upload some parts.

 

[silverprout]

That makes more sense.
No, it was a project on another forum a few years ago.
The XT1464 was cloned, enlarged, slightly modified and optimized in Comsol.
Intended for use with 2" exit BMS Coaxial(s).

So, they have designed a 50°x 60° horn... only to break the symmetry ?

 

[barossi]

This combination is not sooo bad:

Test Bench: FaitalPRO HF142 Compression Driver Coupled with LTH142 60degx50deg Horn | audioXpress

 

[gedlee]

It's well known you rely on B&C drivers (as I do to some extent).
However, this driver might solve the issue and likely also sound better at the low crossover point of the NS-15.

I've heard both the DE500 and the HF10AK and honestly; the Faital sounds better down low (<1500Hz).
The DE550 is better suited to the crossover of the NS-15 due to its 2" VC, but it doesn't quite make it to 20kHz.

I'll put your subjective opinion aside as its not the way I do things. As to changing the drivers, I don't make speakers anymore (haven't in years) , so that's not going to happen.