been up for nearly 24hr w. little sleep - so can't see well
Code:
ID=48.20
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=2.00
Rg=0.00
Fta=22.58
S1=503.22
S2=861.26
Con=20.36
F12=0.00
S2=861.26
S3=789.48
Con=27.50
F23=0.00
S3=789.48
S4=1004.85
Con=0.01
F34=0.00
S4=1004.85
S5=3193.93
Con=33.66
F45=0.00
Sd=889.60
Bl=11.93
Cms=2.68E-04
Rms=2.33
Mmd=64.33
Le=0.96
Re=3.39
Nd=1
Vrc=58.00
Lrc=10.00
Fr=40.00
Tal=2.50
Vtc=480.58
Atc=251.61
Pmax=100
Xmax=5.0
Path=0.0
Mass=0.00
Re'=0.00
Leb=0.00
Le=0.00
Ke=0.00
Rss=0.00
Rms=0.00
Ams=0.00E+00
Fr1=0.00
Fr2=0.00
Fr3=0.00
Fr4=0.00
Tal1=100
Tal2=100
Tal3=100
Tal4=100
Comment=Klipsch K33E in High Fidelity La Scala Model - "Edgar"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FILTER
0 0.01 0.0 -1 0 0.01 0.0 -1 0 0.01 0.0 -1
0 0.01 0.0 -1 0 0.01 0.0 -1 0 0.01 0.0 -1
100 25 0 0
40.50.50.5
0.50.50.50.5
SSSS
0111
1011
0022
1111
111
000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Hi GM,
Mystery solved
.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/119854-hornresp-927.html#post5727589
Kind regards,
David
IF the baby La Scala (only about 2.3 cubic foot box) could be pushed into a good corner then it might be usable
here it is with GW1058
Here's Delta 10A plus comparison of Delta 10A to GW1058
since the response may tilt up with the lower Q driver, might balance be as good or better with the Goldwood? (I'd trust Eminence for linearity)
here it is with GW1058
Here's Delta 10A plus comparison of Delta 10A to GW1058
since the response may tilt up with the lower Q driver, might balance be as good or better with the Goldwood? (I'd trust Eminence for linearity)
I love the look of the Belle and LS speakers - and I've heard the Belle's many years ago and loved their sound. The speakers were placed in corners and did not seem to lack bass. But the measurements posted would make me reconsider using this type of cabinet for a two-way speaker. It seems to be calling out for a midrange to transition between woofer and tweeter. Or maybe I'd consider a simpler bass cabinet solution and build something else that might allow the woofer to work better in a two-way.
dunno if it would do a lot of good to open the throat slot - there's not much horn path at 2/3 scale. A full size La Scala rolls off below 110Hz outdoors. I think cramming a little horn into a corner is the best hope.
John Inlow's straight horns could probably work up reasonably high -until too beamy - they would need support below 130Hz and 100Hz depending upon
model
here's my 10 cubic foot Peavey FH1 outdoors. (I prefer a Karlson 12 - although certainly not sensitive but still ~100dB)
my baby Belle for 12" has the look - might work well but I've not felt up to loading it. That's a K700 on top-
I've got a K600 for its midhorn. A real Belle used the K500.
I think a 12" driver version of the University Classic would make a nice folded midbass horn for a compact 4-way system using tapped horn or PPSL reflex for the bottom octave(s). Mine came out about an inch too small in the back chamber to fit a 12" driver so runs a low qts 10".
John Inlow's straight horns could probably work up reasonably high -until too beamy - they would need support below 130Hz and 100Hz depending upon
model
here's my 10 cubic foot Peavey FH1 outdoors. (I prefer a Karlson 12 - although certainly not sensitive but still ~100dB)
my baby Belle for 12" has the look - might work well but I've not felt up to loading it. That's a K700 on top-
I've got a K600 for its midhorn. A real Belle used the K500.
I think a 12" driver version of the University Classic would make a nice folded midbass horn for a compact 4-way system using tapped horn or PPSL reflex for the bottom octave(s). Mine came out about an inch too small in the back chamber to fit a 12" driver so runs a low qts 10".
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small horns - if there's enough back chamber volume, can sometimes work a bit better in their passband with the back chamber vented. (some of the Frazier "Dixielander" had vented back chamber)
re:reflex - i recommend a Karlson K12 for a little box - with good balance it will outpunch the horn and the reflex.
A K-tube with compression driver will compliment almost any size Karlson when a really good coaxial is unavailable.
A Karlsonator 10 could be made - that alignment in general tunes lower than a classic Karlson and probably is
less "visceral" punch-wise. A K15 will do jaw dropping bass transients which elude many horn.
re:reflex - i recommend a Karlson K12 for a little box - with good balance it will outpunch the horn and the reflex.
A K-tube with compression driver will compliment almost any size Karlson when a really good coaxial is unavailable.
A Karlsonator 10 could be made - that alignment in general tunes lower than a classic Karlson and probably is
less "visceral" punch-wise. A K15 will do jaw dropping bass transients which elude many horn.
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with the stock back chamber (around 16 liters at this scale) you could just use a round vent tube - provided it doesn't come too close to the woofer. Two round tubes on the front's "flat spot" would look nice. The DJK (RIP) vented mod added about 2 cubic foot to La Scala - which already existed in the stock model as the upper horn enclosure had that much volume. You could always build your mini La Scala stock, then experiment by added a vented base underneath - just leave the back chamber door off. Another 16 liters volume from the vented base, and corner placement would provide some LF extension
The added base would be good as no mods needed and you could experiment with it both ways - and it would not be much taller with the base
The larger volume form the base added could be tuned a bit higher
The added base would be good as no mods needed and you could experiment with it both ways - and it would not be much taller with the base
The larger volume form the base added could be tuned a bit higher
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Aaah got it Freddy thank you, to be honest my original idea was to add the additional vent box to increase volume so that I can get more bass. Eminence already provide the box volume & vent dimension to experiment. What I really am after is to try & get a higher cut off frequency so that I can mate it to my horn which cuts off at around 630 hz.
Thanks again for your time & advice.
Thanks again for your time & advice.
you're most welcome - i don't know how high these scaled folded horns - it might go that high as will be beaming on axis. Hornresp needs a single-segment description of flare to do directivity calculations. That's only like a 14.7"x14.7" mouth - smaller than a lot of midhorn. In a corner, on axis and with Delta10a, it migh tgraph pretty flat (?)
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You're welcome!
Good luck with that, I know of no 10" vintage cab designs other than 'FR' drivers, much less horns or even 12" horns for that matter, so unless there's a guitar driver with close enough specs............
GM
I've not seen a drawing for Frazier's Dixielander - - Klipsch's little bastard 76 would be kinda cubical without the top horns - its for a 15 and with K33 spec would exhibit a similar peak as seen with the sim in the 2/3 La Scala.
LB76 could be vented and sims pretty well with my 15" JBL M151
retro vintage modern hi-fi: Klipsch LB76 or Little Bastards
The "Dutch K12" might be pretty cool with a GW1058 - its dimensions are posted. I should have one as a reference even tho it violates Karlson's curved reflector fetish
I have a rough K12 - a copy of the first one from 1954, with port moved to more a K15 position and Pyle pym1298 (same as Kappa12a) on a Rudy Rosa synth CD, that little cabinet has more GRAB than my Klipschorn. A K12 might be my next speaker (at the rate I'm going - maybe my last)
this is the so-called DUTCH K12
it got more vent area than Karlson's K1`2s but may not tune higher as the front aperture and cavity
probably help dominate system tuning
LB76 could be vented and sims pretty well with my 15" JBL M151
retro vintage modern hi-fi: Klipsch LB76 or Little Bastards
The "Dutch K12" might be pretty cool with a GW1058 - its dimensions are posted. I should have one as a reference even tho it violates Karlson's curved reflector fetish
I have a rough K12 - a copy of the first one from 1954, with port moved to more a K15 position and Pyle pym1298 (same as Kappa12a) on a Rudy Rosa synth CD, that little cabinet has more GRAB than my Klipschorn. A K12 might be my next speaker (at the rate I'm going - maybe my last
)this is the so-called DUTCH K12
it got more vent area than Karlson's K1`2s but may not tune higher as the front aperture and cavity
probably help dominate system tuning
Is this really the LS horn unfolded? The 'baby' really this small? [haven't loaded the record yet].
GM
If directly scaled then 0.66 ^3 times 8 cubic feet for a full size La Scala bin - that's about a 2.3 cubic foot box with thin plywood.
I think anything that small would benefit from being in a corner.
One Bruce Edgar's early Speaker Build projects was a little folded corner horn -think it was used to play back barbershop quartet
recordings
The Dixielander is a cute horn - I've got one which needs to be cleaned out and new woofer (mice ate cone) mine
has a vented back chamber. Also, mine will only accommodate an 8 inch driver - most have a 10".
Dwgs for Frazier Dixieland Cabinets
Believe me - with the balance of that K12 and when the late Rudy Rosa hits some heavy bass sting sounds, I can feel the power from the Karlson - my K-horn doesn't do that. Its partly of course a matter of balance, but still a little K is dynamic
and can be whopped with 200W peaks without blowing out the speaker.
I have an RCA-Fan based midhorn that is smooth and relatively "cubical" - then a 0.7 scale Classic with low Q 10 which is cool. Either of those could be scaled down a bit - like 0.8-0.83 scale for the first one.
try scaling this for a 10 - getting up high = ? maybe with Delta10a
https://i.imgur.com/QFnfa5n.jpg
I think anything that small would benefit from being in a corner.
One Bruce Edgar's early Speaker Build projects was a little folded corner horn -think it was used to play back barbershop quartet
recordings
The Dixielander is a cute horn - I've got one which needs to be cleaned out and new woofer (mice ate cone) mine
has a vented back chamber. Also, mine will only accommodate an 8 inch driver - most have a 10".
Dwgs for Frazier Dixieland Cabinets
Believe me - with the balance of that K12 and when the late Rudy Rosa hits some heavy bass sting sounds, I can feel the power from the Karlson - my K-horn doesn't do that. Its partly of course a matter of balance, but still a little K is dynamic
and can be whopped with 200W peaks without blowing out the speaker.
I have an RCA-Fan based midhorn that is smooth and relatively "cubical" - then a 0.7 scale Classic with low Q 10 which is cool. Either of those could be scaled down a bit - like 0.8-0.83 scale for the first one.
try scaling this for a 10 - getting up high = ? maybe with Delta10a
https://i.imgur.com/QFnfa5n.jpg
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