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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Ceramic 4-way 1st ORDER (bang for the buck)
Ceramic 4-way 1st ORDER (bang for the buck)
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Old 22nd February 2019, 03:10 AM   #21
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaVeInFoRm View Post
baffle step relates to speaker design with any number of drivers. in regard to pristinely matched sensitivity of drivers, im sure with any number of drivers some amount of resistance applyed is normal. and makes no difference be it 2 way or 4 way or 10 way.
I'm not quite seeing the logic. Which drivers have you chosen and baffle size?
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Old 22nd February 2019, 04:26 AM   #22
oohms is offline oohms  Australia
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I don't understand why you have chosen those drivers specifically? If you really want to do 1st order electrical you really need to find drivers that already fall off where you want them to.. otherwise you are going to have loads of overlap
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Old 22nd February 2019, 07:14 AM   #23
Mario Pankov is offline Mario Pankov  Europe
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Ceramic 4-way 1st ORDER (bang for the buck)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSplinterJG54 View Post
I'm talking about 1st order electrical.
1st order electrical means nothing for your design, its just a way of reaching your target slope which may turn out even 4th order with 1st order electrical. To achieve what you have read on Troel`s website, your acoustic response (so target slope) must be 1st order and I hardly believe you`d do it with a single inductor. Such slopes usually require far more complex crossovers with lots of elements in them.

Better follow the advice already provided by others - start reading about loudspeaker design from the very beginning. A 4 way is an incredibly complex project to get right, focus on 2 ways and then move on.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 10:03 AM   #24
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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You cd argue that a 3 way is in some ways easier to design, re baffle step. But the only true dead simple 1st order designs I know about used wide band drivers from Jordan or Bandor, possibly Mark Audio.
Jim Thiel also used 1st order crossovers.. but these werent minimalist.. check out the component count on some of his classic designs
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:03 AM   #25
Mario Pankov is offline Mario Pankov  Europe
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Ceramic 4-way 1st ORDER (bang for the buck)
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Originally Posted by Bill poster View Post
Jim Thiel also used 1st order crossovers.. but these werent minimalist.. check out the component count on some of his classic designs
1st order loudspeaker needs, well probably custom built drivers. They all have to be very wide band, with flat frequency response, very low inductance or a compensation network to be added, and such hardly exist. Fullrange drivers are among these that can fit well such design, but some like the FE208ES have very limited xmax. But not sure about the massive drive about it when there is a transient perfect 2nd order which will work mostly better.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 12:08 AM   #26
MasterSplinterJG54 is offline MasterSplinterJG54
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Thanks for the responses guys!

I have made some changes, and I will be making first order crossovers once I measure the drivers.

Im going for all carbon fiber setup instead of the anodized aluminium:

SB26CDC-4 39$ x 2
M.15.250.8.FCX 39$ x 2
W.18.180.8.FCX_v2 44$ x 2
W.27.500.8.FCX 82$ x 2

= 408$ for 2, or 204$ per speaker.

The tweeter will be crossed at 4500hz, the midrange will be crossed with midwoofer @ 500hz and the woofer will be playing full signal strength to 100hz.

This seems like a substantial upgrade from my initial plans using the same budget. I now have a true 10" carbon fiber bass driver, I have went away from chinese midwoofer and midrange, and I can 100% copy the elipticor 3 cabinets, already in production.

STX have no independence plots, so i'll have to wait.

Thanks guys!

This is a big turn to the plot, take stabs while you can)
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Old 23rd February 2019, 01:57 AM   #27
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSplinterJG54 View Post
I have made some changes, and I will be making first order crossovers once I measure the drivers
Cult of the First-Order ..... KEEP THE FAITH

Just use a simulator with SPL+FRD+ZMA+BAFFLE data before you purchase.
Driver SPL overlaps will cause harmonic distortion and polar distortion which are difficult to model.
-------------
Please post datasheets or measurements for each driver.

P.S. Factor in the China shipping costs.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 08:09 AM   #28
MasterSplinterJG54 is offline MasterSplinterJG54
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Ok!! As i understand, I can have a local company like hifi-compass measure the drivers and produce full FRD and ZMA files, having the drivers already mounted in my specific cabinet? Then I use a program to model it, and finally pull the trigger on the crossover values once I got the individual responses figured out.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 09:11 AM   #29
denibeni is offline denibeni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSplinterJG54 View Post
Ok!! As i understand, I can have a local company like hifi-compass measure the drivers and produce full FRD and ZMA files, having the drivers already mounted in my specific cabinet? Then I use a program to model it, and finally pull the trigger on the crossover values once I got the individual responses figured out.
Not necessarily. You can model for yourself using the factory measurements of the specific drivers using a response tracer software like FRD tool. But be aware, not all driver manufacturers uses the same measurement methods for the datasheets.
The best datasheets for modeling like this is the full 2pi anechoic (e.g. Scan-Speak), this way you can easily add your baffle/box size response to the modeling, but can be done with other datasheets too. SEAS datasheets are nearly useless here, because it uses different baffle sizes for different driver sizes.

Check:
Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement

Last edited by denibeni; 23rd February 2019 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 09:33 AM   #30
MasterSplinterJG54 is offline MasterSplinterJG54
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Thanks again LInesource!
I have posted the theoritical graphs before I make real measurements. I will update the ORIGINAL POST because things have gotten messy. My apologies for this!

Please note that the Tweeter has a series LCR circuit in parrallel to the driver. This eliminated the effect of independence rise @ resonant frequency, making a steeper slope, and allowing better power handling. I was still adviced to add a fuse to the tweeters. Will this negatively impact the sound of the tweeter?

Last edited by MasterSplinterJG54; 23rd February 2019 at 09:36 AM.
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