I used the sb15nac30-8 in a ported 2 way design crossed 3rd order at ~2 kHz with SB26STAC and it sounds excellent. In a lot of ways I like it more than my Paradigm Prestige 85Fs. Not that it matters so much for your application, but the SB midwoofer digs deep - f3 in the upper 30s for my design, just maxes out due to xmax around 94 dB, but if you cross it around 200-250 Hz, that will not be an issue. Definitely recommend it as a midrange.
Sorry but I don't agree with that...
I would say that measures in that range of freq require anechoic chamber or at least a well trated room.
Thanks Ilikefoodz, yes SB15NBAC seems the winner in this price range for this kind of application.
@Ilikefoodz : fiberglass and metal seems to be the choice is most studio monitors design. I have not such a big experience to say what material I prefer...
Which other 5" mids with flat response and low THD should I consider in your opinion?
@spendormania : Thinking at your bad experience with the RSS drivers, i was wandering if the reason could be the sympathetic resonance from the mid driver in the 900Hz-2k range . Were the two drivers sharing the same volume?
Which other 5" mids with flat response and low THD should I consider in your opinion?
@spendormania : Thinking at your bad experience with the RSS drivers, i was wandering if the reason could be the sympathetic resonance from the mid driver in the 900Hz-2k range . Were the two drivers sharing the same volume?
Guzauski-swist in their design decouple the MT cabinet from the W in a clever way:
Design
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=2ahUKEwi7surHy77gAhWI4IUKHQoyBiUQFjALegQIIhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gearslutz.com%2Fboard%2Fattachments%2Fmastering-forum%2F728380d1519756094-guzauski-swist-gs3a-system-gas-draft-white-paper.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2vcrAS3CFL9ZswKLKW1eKL
I was considering this option but with sorbothane washers. I'm not sure if it worth the extra work of doing a L shaped bass unit and a small box for MT.
Design
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=2ahUKEwi7surHy77gAhWI4IUKHQoyBiUQFjALegQIIhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gearslutz.com%2Fboard%2Fattachments%2Fmastering-forum%2F728380d1519756094-guzauski-swist-gs3a-system-gas-draft-white-paper.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2vcrAS3CFL9ZswKLKW1eKL
I was considering this option but with sorbothane washers. I'm not sure if it worth the extra work of doing a L shaped bass unit and a small box for MT.
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If it fits in your price range, I think the sb15cac30 looks excellent, and supposedly ceramic has lots of the desirable properties of both metal and paper cones.
I have heard that the SB15NRXC30 sounds very good as well, although I would expect it, as a paper cone, to sound somewhat less analytical than metal, so perhaps not the best choice for a studio monitor.
I have heard that the SB15NRXC30 sounds very good as well, although I would expect it, as a paper cone, to sound somewhat less analytical than metal, so perhaps not the best choice for a studio monitor.
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sub drivers upper frequencys out of the mix?
its a Woofer. it is 8 inches. Plenty of 8 inch woofer designs cross at 1khz why muddy up the mid by having it move more air than it needs to. many designs cross at 500
regarding the tweeter. many tweeters begin to struggle if crossed to low and the mid driver is therefore more efficient to produce this range of the spectrum.
you may be able to borrow something from the sea's 3 way classic, I wonder what crossover he chose. he did use a seas tweeter however and likely crossed higher, but as far as I am aware for higher spl levels with a 1 inch tweeter it really needs to be crossed around 3khz.
what I mean is you wrote as if it where gospel, when really its very variable what crossover points people chose and with what drivers.
could be usefull
looks like a good speaker.
SEAS-3-Way-Classic
this one with baffel step
SEAS-3-Way-Classic-mkII
and another with simuler drivers but a different shape box
Poor Man'
I havent used That mid, it is the lower sensitivity one if I recall. or the smaller 4 inch one.
I have the MRACY version.
its a Woofer. it is 8 inches. Plenty of 8 inch woofer designs cross at 1khz why muddy up the mid by having it move more air than it needs to. many designs cross at 500
regarding the tweeter. many tweeters begin to struggle if crossed to low and the mid driver is therefore more efficient to produce this range of the spectrum.
you may be able to borrow something from the sea's 3 way classic, I wonder what crossover he chose. he did use a seas tweeter however and likely crossed higher, but as far as I am aware for higher spl levels with a 1 inch tweeter it really needs to be crossed around 3khz.
what I mean is you wrote as if it where gospel, when really its very variable what crossover points people chose and with what drivers.
could be usefull
looks like a good speaker.
SEAS-3-Way-Classic
this one with baffel step
SEAS-3-Way-Classic-mkII
and another with simuler drivers but a different shape box
Poor Man'
I havent used That mid, it is the lower sensitivity one if I recall. or the smaller 4 inch one.
I have the MRACY version.
also if you use a lower sensitivity woofer you then have to play around with even more resistance for the mid and tweeter circuits to dull them down to match the badly designed woofer that really should only be used as a subwoofer in my opinion.
lose a bit of xmax and realise it doesnt really account for thaaat much given this is a 8inch driver being used. you can always add a 15 inch sub later on to fill in the lowest 1.5 octaves
ok dull down is abit of a bias wording. ...attenuate, bring to level with. You will need more resistance for the mid and treble circuits than with a higher efficiency woofer. also that advice that is doesn't do so well in the upper bass regions like male vocals sounds like sound advice to me.
the mid and tweeter look fine. I would advise to swap the bass driver.
also the woofer is not 'badly designed, as such. more just appropriate as a sub woofer.
lose a bit of xmax and realise it doesnt really account for thaaat much given this is a 8inch driver being used. you can always add a 15 inch sub later on to fill in the lowest 1.5 octaves
ok dull down is abit of a bias wording. ...attenuate, bring to level with. You will need more resistance for the mid and treble circuits than with a higher efficiency woofer. also that advice that is doesn't do so well in the upper bass regions like male vocals sounds like sound advice to me.
the mid and tweeter look fine. I would advise to swap the bass driver.
also the woofer is not 'badly designed, as such. more just appropriate as a sub woofer.
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"700 and 2.7 kHz, 2nd order LR2 topology" he's so nice to tell us!
He use 4" mid in that design, but I'd like to use a bigger one, to be able to cross lower with the W... 4" beams higher around... 2.5k!
Lipinski use 2k LR2 in 707 with, probably, the similar Vifa XT25SC30-04 and the WT integration is great.
I think the reason for having such a low xover point is to maintain an even directivity, most 5" start to beam around 2k.
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Hypex fusion have integrated DSP... designing a passive filter is way out of my knowledge!
I agree with you that RSS should be used for LF, that was the idea when crossing around 250Hz...
Do you guys think that decoupling MT from W is important for all these reasons?
The RSSs diaphragm is heavier than the UM8s and if you compare the frequency response graphs they both are of similar sensitivity.
Still the fact the UM8 breaks up at 800Hz could be cause for concern, although this is a diaphragm with high internal damping, so unlike metal it is unlikely to propagate far down into the HD. I'll have to look for HD measurements for the series.
You can actually buy them from Hifi compass! The other half of their website is a shop. The price is listed in dollars but they are in the Ukraine.
I have not used it but the specs speak for themselves really. The resonances are big, high up in frequency, but this is the same with any other metal coned driver. You just need to cross low enough to avoid them and no problem, plus a notch filter (or sometimes two) helps. You're planning to cross around 2kHz so you're sorted.
If you would prefer there's always the MFC version, with the poly cone, but it has issues, small resonances, around 700-1500Hz. These aren't a big deal but I'd rather not have them. The metal cone is free from all of these and is cleaner in the HD as a result.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Sometimes male voices can be a real pain to balance in a three way and is really just down to linear distortion (ie the frequency response). There's no reason for the driver, for any driver really, to cause this it's just a case of balancing the design correctly.
I'm sorry you didn't get it to sound the way you wanted. I know that wolfteeth, I think it was, used them in one of his favourite sounding speakers.
The Discovery 15W/4424 you originally selected is actually a very good choice for a mid. I have some experience with the 15W4524T and the diaphragm is simply outstanding. They are very easy to cross because the breakups are well controlled. The sound is very transparent. People usually try to steer to their favorites but your original choice was quite good. Read the articles on Troels Gravesen's site on designs with these drivers.
plenty of low content in orchestral music for example. personally I wouldnt chose that but each and every speaker will sound differently anyway. true the better they are the more perfect the sound and therefore the more alike,
orchestras have drums.
they have bassons. large armpits I mean trumpits
important for orchestral and classical to produce that range of the spectrum well. why personally i would pick another woofer for the job with abit less xmax and a beter feel to it. but thats my personal sence and there fore may be erroneous.
orchestras have drums.
they have bassons. large armpits I mean trumpits
important for orchestral and classical to produce that range of the spectrum well. why personally i would pick another woofer for the job with abit less xmax and a beter feel to it. but thats my personal sence and there fore may be erroneous.
Thanks for your replies.
My initial selection was based on drivers that I have already listened to. Same tweeter is in my current setup, the mid driver (18W version) sounds great in Sveda Audio D'appo, woofer works well in GS-3a. I use DSP filtering so I'm really flexible here.
The reading / building of Troels project also influenced me (his SS 3way is great... never tried his more expensive designs).
All the mids suggested in this thread seem to do de job well. Expecially the sb15nac30 and sb15cac30. I guess the only way to know it is to build 2 speakers and try different mids before building the other 3 speakers.
For the woofer I need to do a choice before building cause it really influence the cabinet design and they cost more. I need a woofer that cad dig well to the 30Hz.
Mostly because in my classical recordings I need to take care of rumblings, foot-stamping, piano/harp pedals. That is the reason of chosing RSS as a driver that can do this in a modest sealed enclosure.
The only other choice in my price range would be Visaton TIW200XS with some dsp's eq.
I checked the seas woofers suggested but the don't seem to do the job and they are more expensive. I'm open to suggestions...
Thanks
My initial selection was based on drivers that I have already listened to. Same tweeter is in my current setup, the mid driver (18W version) sounds great in Sveda Audio D'appo, woofer works well in GS-3a. I use DSP filtering so I'm really flexible here.
The reading / building of Troels project also influenced me (his SS 3way is great... never tried his more expensive designs).
All the mids suggested in this thread seem to do de job well. Expecially the sb15nac30 and sb15cac30. I guess the only way to know it is to build 2 speakers and try different mids before building the other 3 speakers.
For the woofer I need to do a choice before building cause it really influence the cabinet design and they cost more. I need a woofer that cad dig well to the 30Hz.
Mostly because in my classical recordings I need to take care of rumblings, foot-stamping, piano/harp pedals. That is the reason of chosing RSS as a driver that can do this in a modest sealed enclosure.
The only other choice in my price range would be Visaton TIW200XS with some dsp's eq.
I checked the seas woofers suggested but the don't seem to do the job and they are more expensive. I'm open to suggestions...
Thanks
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