To add a little more information: I estimate the pair of SB34NRX75-6 woofers in my listening room can reach 110 dB and still be within Xmax. That is enough for me, I don't listen to music at concert level volumes. I chose the drivers because of their highly linear low distortion performance.
I also considered the SB34SWNRX-S75 in a vented box. In the end I decided on a sealed box design.
The SB34SWPL76-4 seems to be designed to work in a small sealed box. It will produce deep bass in a small box, but this comes at the expense of efficiency. The sensitivity is low even for a 4 ohm driver.
You will have to decide which will work best in your situation. If you have a small listening space and your sit close to the sub, the SB34SWPL76-4 might be perfect.
I also considered the SB34SWNRX-S75 in a vented box. In the end I decided on a sealed box design.
The SB34SWPL76-4 seems to be designed to work in a small sealed box. It will produce deep bass in a small box, but this comes at the expense of efficiency. The sensitivity is low even for a 4 ohm driver.
You will have to decide which will work best in your situation. If you have a small listening space and your sit close to the sub, the SB34SWPL76-4 might be perfect.
Those have turned out really well and I like the small form factor. At first I though you had used the SB17CAC from the cone colouration but then realised it was the light version of the Satori.
For subs you ideally want to use more than one, put them in places different to the main speakers, put them close to walls, corners, floors and use EQ/DSP to blend them into your room.
The idea is to high pass your mains but do so as low as they'll comfortably go whilst giving you the kind of max SPL you're looking for. So say you'll have the mains going down to 50Hz. Then use the subs up to 120Hz causing an overlap in output from the mains and the subs, with all the bass sources in the room placed in different locations. You then EQ things so things are flat.
The overlapping and distributed bass sources spread out the excitation of room modes and create a more even bass response throughout the room. There's an application that can do the EQ thing for you and calculate the best response but I forget it's name and I'm not at home at the moment to check.
With regards to what subs to get. The biggest factor regarding clean output is with how much linear displacement the driver has. Nothing else matters. If one driver has the linear displacement and another one does not then all the shiny technology in the world on the one that doesn't won't save it. Of course you need to make sure the sub can handle the power you want to give it and that you have the amplifier power required. But on the whole the thing that matters most is the linear displacement.
The SB34SWPL looks excellent. The Ultimax series is also very good. Going ported, with a suitable driver, will always give you more output but will probably require passive radiators if you're using a sub designed to work in small enclosures. If you're after output down to 20Hz then an extended bass shelf alignment, that is a design tuned lower than usual, will probably suit well. The idea here is you basically tune to 20Hz, maximising efficiency at 20Hz and reducing the demand placed on the driver at the lowest frequencies you want it to cover. This causes a non flat response right down low but you EQ it back into place.
Any good sub driver + suitable box design will get you where you want to go the question is how much space do you have. You need to simulate with the drivers available and see which ones will fit in the most appropriately with your design requirements (how low and how loud) whilst also fitting in with your room.
For subs you ideally want to use more than one, put them in places different to the main speakers, put them close to walls, corners, floors and use EQ/DSP to blend them into your room.
The idea is to high pass your mains but do so as low as they'll comfortably go whilst giving you the kind of max SPL you're looking for. So say you'll have the mains going down to 50Hz. Then use the subs up to 120Hz causing an overlap in output from the mains and the subs, with all the bass sources in the room placed in different locations. You then EQ things so things are flat.
The overlapping and distributed bass sources spread out the excitation of room modes and create a more even bass response throughout the room. There's an application that can do the EQ thing for you and calculate the best response but I forget it's name and I'm not at home at the moment to check.
With regards to what subs to get. The biggest factor regarding clean output is with how much linear displacement the driver has. Nothing else matters. If one driver has the linear displacement and another one does not then all the shiny technology in the world on the one that doesn't won't save it. Of course you need to make sure the sub can handle the power you want to give it and that you have the amplifier power required. But on the whole the thing that matters most is the linear displacement.
The SB34SWPL looks excellent. The Ultimax series is also very good. Going ported, with a suitable driver, will always give you more output but will probably require passive radiators if you're using a sub designed to work in small enclosures. If you're after output down to 20Hz then an extended bass shelf alignment, that is a design tuned lower than usual, will probably suit well. The idea here is you basically tune to 20Hz, maximising efficiency at 20Hz and reducing the demand placed on the driver at the lowest frequencies you want it to cover. This causes a non flat response right down low but you EQ it back into place.
Any good sub driver + suitable box design will get you where you want to go the question is how much space do you have. You need to simulate with the drivers available and see which ones will fit in the most appropriately with your design requirements (how low and how loud) whilst also fitting in with your room.
An easy way to compare subwoofers and their parameters:
SB Acoustics SB34SWPL76-4
SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6
Put it in one of the sim tools and see what it can do and what box size would be needed. Place them (in your room) where they do best. This may not be 'under' the current 3-way. Multiples (more than 2) really work to even out the response if you can use EQ.
SB Acoustics SB34SWPL76-4
SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6
Put it in one of the sim tools and see what it can do and what box size would be needed. Place them (in your room) where they do best. This may not be 'under' the current 3-way. Multiples (more than 2) really work to even out the response if you can use EQ.
Earlier this morning I finally pulled the trigger on two RSS390HF-4.
They need bigger boxes than the SB34 (100l - 120l seems just fine), but they offer quite some dB more in the low 20's.
I did a lot of modelling and it looked as the best price/performance ratio (sensitivity, sd area, linear excursion). UM's were even better but I don't have that much power available.
I will use some hypex UCD400OEM that I already have....
@5th element
Nice to have you back here!
Never thought about that possibility to overlap subs and mains and the eq. I really want to try it when the subs will be finished!
They need bigger boxes than the SB34 (100l - 120l seems just fine), but they offer quite some dB more in the low 20's.
I did a lot of modelling and it looked as the best price/performance ratio (sensitivity, sd area, linear excursion). UM's were even better but I don't have that much power available.
I will use some hypex UCD400OEM that I already have....
@5th element
Nice to have you back here!
Never thought about that possibility to overlap subs and mains and the eq. I really want to try it when the subs will be finished!
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Hello Enrico!
It all looks very nice! congrats on your project! I am actually interested in this thread as I am building a 3way Studio Monitor. Also for Mixing/Mastering applications...
My main issue is the mid. I still can´t make my mind...
Between Scanspeak 18W/8438G00, Satori MR13P-4, and Eton 5-512...
How was the satori mid performanece compared to your Lipinski monitors? Lipinski is using 8438 right? or similar?
Cheers!
It all looks very nice! congrats on your project! I am actually interested in this thread as I am building a 3way Studio Monitor. Also for Mixing/Mastering applications...
My main issue is the mid. I still can´t make my mind...
Between Scanspeak 18W/8438G00, Satori MR13P-4, and Eton 5-512...
How was the satori mid performanece compared to your Lipinski monitors? Lipinski is using 8438 right? or similar?
Cheers!
Hey there, I've been far for a while from diyaudio, hadn't see your msg...
I really like this speakers, there fast and dry, 3D, sweet, not fatiguing at all, and with the subs they go really low.
But... I still don't feel ok to master on them, so I've kept my lipinski since I know they translate very well.
I tried only once to master on them, but it was not easy cause they always sound "right", it was a bit of a surprise to listen to the tracks back on my lipinski.
Don't know if it's something about the cone material, i'll probably try plastic or metal for mid on my next build.
But again, they sound very good, maybe too much ;-)
I really like this speakers, there fast and dry, 3D, sweet, not fatiguing at all, and with the subs they go really low.
But... I still don't feel ok to master on them, so I've kept my lipinski since I know they translate very well.
I tried only once to master on them, but it was not easy cause they always sound "right", it was a bit of a surprise to listen to the tracks back on my lipinski.
Don't know if it's something about the cone material, i'll probably try plastic or metal for mid on my next build.
But again, they sound very good, maybe too much ;-)
by the way, in my next speakers I would love to try the purifi mids:
Purifi Audio PTT6.5W04-01A midwoofer | HiFiCompass
but again, not sure for for mastering purposes, and honestly their price is just crazy...
Purifi Audio PTT6.5W04-01A midwoofer | HiFiCompass
but again, not sure for for mastering purposes, and honestly their price is just crazy...
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The Purifi is a mid bass but is so clean in the midrange, it can be used as a superb sounding mid. The distortion is very low and it sounds like a 4in mid in clarity.
The 10F/8424 is one of the nicest mid ranges around and will be almost a good as a tweeter if you don't need anything above 16kHz.
Let us know how the 8in RSS woofer works out. I have had great success with RS225-8. Very flat response and low distortion and great +/-7mm max. I have crossed it as high as 1kHz and it gives a nice punch to the mid bass and vocals.
The 10F/8424 is one of the nicest mid ranges around and will be almost a good as a tweeter if you don't need anything above 16kHz.
Let us know how the 8in RSS woofer works out. I have had great success with RS225-8. Very flat response and low distortion and great +/-7mm max. I have crossed it as high as 1kHz and it gives a nice punch to the mid bass and vocals.
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