looking for 12-15 inch woofer selection experience/ advice ...
need 94-97 db sens at 8 ohms
reasonable price ( around 100$ each )
so the issue here is I need to be able to use this woofer as the foundation in two very different set ups for testing other drives
In one setup the woofer will be used as a 2 way monitor crossed at 1k to test a wave guided tweeter design. Looking to get to 50 hz at least in a box no bigger than about 3-3.5 cu feet and of course reasonable linear response through to around 2 k. Yes I realize this is a bit much to ask in the cheaper drivers
In the other set up the woofer will be used in an open baffle crossed at 200hz so some X max is desired, maybe 4 mm or more
Any experience/ advice with such drivers welcomed
this about only one I see so far that might work??
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-416-eminence-delta-12lfa-specifications-44284.pdf
I am concerned about how these drivers control the region between about 200 and 2 khz. Seems how this area this handled separates the expensive drivers from the cheaper stuff
need 94-97 db sens at 8 ohms
reasonable price ( around 100$ each )
so the issue here is I need to be able to use this woofer as the foundation in two very different set ups for testing other drives
In one setup the woofer will be used as a 2 way monitor crossed at 1k to test a wave guided tweeter design. Looking to get to 50 hz at least in a box no bigger than about 3-3.5 cu feet and of course reasonable linear response through to around 2 k. Yes I realize this is a bit much to ask in the cheaper drivers
In the other set up the woofer will be used in an open baffle crossed at 200hz so some X max is desired, maybe 4 mm or more
Any experience/ advice with such drivers welcomed
this about only one I see so far that might work??
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-416-eminence-delta-12lfa-specifications-44284.pdf
I am concerned about how these drivers control the region between about 200 and 2 khz. Seems how this area this handled separates the expensive drivers from the cheaper stuff
no havent look at celstion
yea the fatal looks great, as does everything else around that price ha
seems like the only cheaper woofers that are more linear up into mids are really heavy cones. Easy way to tame that region I guess but would rather use a lighter moving mass, somewhere below 80 g
yea the fatal looks great, as does everything else around that price ha
seems like the only cheaper woofers that are more linear up into mids are really heavy cones. Easy way to tame that region I guess but would rather use a lighter moving mass, somewhere below 80 g
The econowave thread will give you a lot of info on woofers that might be useful for your monitors.
As for open baffle, QTS requirements are less of a problem if you go DSP. (with EQ abilities) I use 2 pa310's per channel in open baffle, and still need quite a bit of bump in the lower frequencies.
As for open baffle, QTS requirements are less of a problem if you go DSP. (with EQ abilities) I use 2 pa310's per channel in open baffle, and still need quite a bit of bump in the lower frequencies.
yea the beta 15 was one I looked at , would work for open baff BUT calculating a box for that woofer gives HUGE boxes
A driver you may want to consider is the PE-PA-310-8 (12"). In 2.5 cu. ft. box tuned per thiele at its 39 Hz FS. 4" port dia X 7" long. 94.5 db/watt true net efficiency. $60. Reasonably flat to 1.8Khz. 5.5 mm X-max. Rugged construction with 80 oz of magnet. Nice thick plates. -3 in the above box is 39 Hz. Add a couple of inches to the port length and you will get -3 at 37 Hz. This assumes no RG value in the equation. Have used before. Very consistent and dynamic so far. YMMV.
That was actually the first driver I considered. No big peak around 2k and reasonable box.
My concern, and perhaps not well founded?, is its MMS. It looks like a cone that just had mass thrown at it to get a flatter response? I was a bit concerned as it was about 2X the MMS of a number of other 12" drivers.
What can U say to this fear? I don't have a good solid base for this but the few lower mass woofers Ive heard seem to have certain quality in the bass that I cant really define well although they have all been in big boxes.
MMS
As the saying goes, no free lunch. 72G for a 12" is about average... and we are talking about a $60 woofer. If you are really out at 1 Khz (12 db/oct) you should be OK.
Or you can spend a couple of hundred bucks and get the MMS down a bit, but a bigger box for the same 37-39 hz cut off. It will be interesting to see what choice of driver you make.
As the saying goes, no free lunch. 72G for a 12" is about average... and we are talking about a $60 woofer. If you are really out at 1 Khz (12 db/oct) you should be OK.
Or you can spend a couple of hundred bucks and get the MMS down a bit, but a bigger box for the same 37-39 hz cut off. It will be interesting to see what choice of driver you make.
Yea this woofer will be used for some experiments mostly testing a tweeter in a dipole 3 way ( woofer to 200hz) and then in a wave guided 2 way monitor( woofer to 1khz). This will be some preliminary testing and wanted to spend a small amount for now and ramp up after some investigations.
BTW what mean here? "This assumes no RG value in the equation"
also any experience with the 15 and 18 " versions of that driver??
BTW what mean here? "This assumes no RG value in the equation"
also any experience with the 15 and 18 " versions of that driver??
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RG, I knew him well!
Resistance Gain... this covers any resistance(s) added to the woofer (or any driver for that mater) usually due to crossover components such as inductors. Basically, any series resistance found between the woofer and amplifier. RG will increase the QTS of the driver and that can have an effect on box tuning and or size. And to some extent, net driver efficiency. Typical woofer RG runs from .25 ohms to as much as 2 ohms. The default value is usually .5 ohms. How is that for confusing the issue?
Resistance Gain... this covers any resistance(s) added to the woofer (or any driver for that mater) usually due to crossover components such as inductors. Basically, any series resistance found between the woofer and amplifier. RG will increase the QTS of the driver and that can have an effect on box tuning and or size. And to some extent, net driver efficiency. Typical woofer RG runs from .25 ohms to as much as 2 ohms. The default value is usually .5 ohms. How is that for confusing the issue?
Much appreciation to the OP. Good topic.
Anyone have any quick thoughts on the Beyma SM115n?
What about the Beyma 12BR70?
I've seen recent mention of EBP, and have been using it to help me select possible drivers. It's interesting to see that you can get the 2/3 out of cheap, efficient, and low-end. You gotta pay to play, and I'm looking to just "dabble". Not so much achieve perfection as much as I want to cut my teeth on something that will give pleasing results without expecting too much. The two above drivers are different in a few ways and a compromise between those 3 variables I tend to notice.
Anyone have any quick thoughts on the Beyma SM115n?
What about the Beyma 12BR70?
I've seen recent mention of EBP, and have been using it to help me select possible drivers. It's interesting to see that you can get the 2/3 out of cheap, efficient, and low-end. You gotta pay to play, and I'm looking to just "dabble". Not so much achieve perfection as much as I want to cut my teeth on something that will give pleasing results without expecting too much. The two above drivers are different in a few ways and a compromise between those 3 variables I tend to notice.
"resistance gain" yes ok wasn't sure. Ive been here in the past, mostly developing a dipole "sub" panel (not cones). Two big takeaways from that work were Mms and crossover resistance.
In the end I loved the lighter diaphragms mostly due to less shaking of the whole baffle under hard drive ha AND I ended up making my own inductors out of large gapped transformer cores and 10 gauge wire to make a real dent in the coils resistance. The low R coil was most noticed however with woof in box, not so much in the dipole.
In the end I loved the lighter diaphragms mostly due to less shaking of the whole baffle under hard drive ha AND I ended up making my own inductors out of large gapped transformer cores and 10 gauge wire to make a real dent in the coils resistance. The low R coil was most noticed however with woof in box, not so much in the dipole.
You should be looking for drivers with higher Qts.. (..and not to large of a Vas.)
OR
Looking for something with a LOT of efficiency near 150 Hz and then adding resistance (usually in combination with inductance).
You can often linearize a choppy higher freq. response with a damping compound on the surround and cone junction. (..usually several coats of stretch fabric glue.)
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