Here I am again for some more support.
I've been playing with all the simulators I could find, using my measurements, and this seems the best option so far, just looking at the SPL response:
What do you think of the crossover?
I've run the ones suggested by LineSource but the SPL has a V shape which theoretically reduces the mid frequencies. Probably it's becasue of his -3dB for the baffle correction but my design is different than his.
And here it is: 420x240x300(+19+19mm). I also have the plans but on a PDF file. I can screenshot it if you need or want them.
I'll wait for your responses.
PS: I have also used Equalizer APO to test one speaker connecting one driver to L channel and one to R channel of my amplifier.
This above is what I measured using a 2nd order high pass filter with Q1 and -2,5dB on tweeter and a 2nd order low pass filter with Q0,3 for the woofer, both at 2100Hz.
I've been playing with all the simulators I could find, using my measurements, and this seems the best option so far, just looking at the SPL response:
What do you think of the crossover?
I've run the ones suggested by LineSource but the SPL has a V shape which theoretically reduces the mid frequencies. Probably it's becasue of his -3dB for the baffle correction but my design is different than his.
And here it is: 420x240x300(+19+19mm). I also have the plans but on a PDF file. I can screenshot it if you need or want them.
I'll wait for your responses.
PS: I have also used Equalizer APO to test one speaker connecting one driver to L channel and one to R channel of my amplifier.
This above is what I measured using a 2nd order high pass filter with Q1 and -2,5dB on tweeter and a 2nd order low pass filter with Q0,3 for the woofer, both at 2100Hz.
Stupid cell phones - all my writing is gone. Post measured frq, zma files, unfiltered on the baffle - so people can play with it, post the offsets of the drivers for proper phase integration. Avoid x-overs above 2,5k or shallow slopes - only SB17 polycone can handle it as it has reduced cone break-up. You might do with 2,5k LR24 but I would go below 2k, if the tweeter can handle it to avoid SB17Alu cone break-up, the 17NRXC has Himalayas starting from 4k and 4,2k RLC trap was necessary to clean it up - I used Mark Kravczenko XBL long trow tweeters around 1,5k, ditching the SB29RDCN as it couldn't handle x-overs below 3k - expensive ring-dong junk. You seem not to use BSC at all - are they going to be hanged on the wall? If so maybe wide baffle a'la Grimm Audio would work better for you, sort of wide baffle Sonus Fabre vented on the bottom. Our friend did something like that with 4,5" TB wide band, horn loaded bass and sounded quite good.
I moved my port to the back, as it radiates a lot of midrange with ugly resonances from 50mm, 170-200mm long port - 40Hz tuning in 16L box. I would like to tune it lower to avoid booming but have no space in behind the tweeter for longer port. Avoid peaks in 5-8k (might be the woofers cone break-up), they might sound ugly, shallow 3-4k dip sounds rather OK. Again flat, smooth with gentle rises or dips preferred. Please post separate graphs and files, for individual drivers, unfiltered and then with x-o but on 10dB scale, preferably no smoothing.
Waveform: pt2 of 3 | John Gabriel Otvos
I moved my port to the back, as it radiates a lot of midrange with ugly resonances from 50mm, 170-200mm long port - 40Hz tuning in 16L box. I would like to tune it lower to avoid booming but have no space in behind the tweeter for longer port. Avoid peaks in 5-8k (might be the woofers cone break-up), they might sound ugly, shallow 3-4k dip sounds rather OK. Again flat, smooth with gentle rises or dips preferred. Please post separate graphs and files, for individual drivers, unfiltered and then with x-o but on 10dB scale, preferably no smoothing.
Waveform: pt2 of 3 | John Gabriel Otvos
SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Revel Performa3 M106 Loudspeakers
Uses SB17Alu 8ohm , might help you
Uses SB17Alu 8ohm , might help you
I am back with final measurements on the completed loudspeakers (photos later because my phone camera sucks).
Here is the SPL+Phase graph at 50cm and 75dBA.
I've used the crossover suggested by LineSource but I had to replace the first 2,7 Ohm resistor on the tweeters with a 1,5 Ohm one for better linearity.
Here is the SPL+Phase graph at 50cm and 75dBA.
I've used the crossover suggested by LineSource but I had to replace the first 2,7 Ohm resistor on the tweeters with a 1,5 Ohm one for better linearity.
Zermak do reverse phase measurements. Move the microphone up and down and check when you have best null - should be on listening axis and little above for LR4, at least it sounds to me best like this. Check if might get away without the 40uF cap. Also since your baffle is not like the one suggested and simulated by Linesource the delays might be different and the notch will be somewhere else, and the summation will be on different axis (off axis will have slight depression in x-o area). You may add extra thickness to compensate if you need to move the tweeter forward. I don't have the frd and zma files, so I can't simulate. Post some graphs with woofers and tweeters crossover transfer function.
Also, you have live room and a lot reflections from walls, floor so might like the little dip in lower highs.
Also, you have live room and a lot reflections from walls, floor so might like the little dip in lower highs.
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The measurements are taken with the speaker on the edge of the table in the middle of the room (almost 2m away from sides, and 4m behind and 6m in front) to try to reduce these reflections and the microphone was 50cm away on tweeter axis.
Can you elaborate? What do you mean with reverse phase measurements? Swap plus and minus on the drivers?
And what about moving the microphone up and down? To find the best height for the stand for the listening position?
And try to replace the 33uF with 40uF for the tweeter XO?
Can you elaborate? What do you mean with reverse phase measurements? Swap plus and minus on the drivers?
And what about moving the microphone up and down? To find the best height for the stand for the listening position?
And try to replace the 33uF with 40uF for the tweeter XO?
Reverse phase
You just reverse polarity on one driver. A null will show up at x-o point and when you move mic up or down it will be at some point max - this where you have maximum summation and where drivers are closest in phase with each other.
If you replace 33uF with 40uF you should get a boost in lower highs, depending on the drivers phase. Same thing would be if you change 0.15mH coil with bigger value, say 0.22mH. So when you're voicing you play a bit with values and lots music until satisfied - very slow and painful process. Put foam, Dacron on the floor in front of the microphone it will dampen some reflections. For less reflections you might also use gated measurement if available, but it will not measure anything below lower midrange, but everything will be much smoother. Don't worry about pictures, they look perfectly readable
Take measurements with tweeter separate and midbass separate overlayed , same like you have in simulations.
You just reverse polarity on one driver. A null will show up at x-o point and when you move mic up or down it will be at some point max - this where you have maximum summation and where drivers are closest in phase with each other.
If you replace 33uF with 40uF you should get a boost in lower highs, depending on the drivers phase. Same thing would be if you change 0.15mH coil with bigger value, say 0.22mH. So when you're voicing you play a bit with values and lots music until satisfied - very slow and painful process. Put foam, Dacron on the floor in front of the microphone it will dampen some reflections. For less reflections you might also use gated measurement if available, but it will not measure anything below lower midrange, but everything will be much smoother. Don't worry about pictures, they look perfectly readable
Take measurements with tweeter separate and midbass separate overlayed , same like you have in simulations.
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@Qts
No I haven't yet but I will so I can measure all you are asking for.
@pliedtka
I have once, changing tweeter polarity for the null/XO point but haven't moved the microphone tho.
About the tests: I should buy all this stuff and replace the XO components but I have the XO in the cabinet already; it is kinda tricky to and also more money to spend which I am not willing to.
I have the measures of the single drivers in the cabinet with their own XO. Do you want me to show them?
No I haven't yet but I will so I can measure all you are asking for.
@pliedtka
I have once, changing tweeter polarity for the null/XO point but haven't moved the microphone tho.
About the tests: I should buy all this stuff and replace the XO components but I have the XO in the cabinet already; it is kinda tricky to and also more money to spend which I am not willing to.
I have the measures of the single drivers in the cabinet with their own XO. Do you want me to show them?
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