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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Non sibliant speakers
Non sibliant speakers
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Old 18th January 2019, 10:52 AM   #1
cbarth is offline cbarth  Norway
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Default Non sibliant speakers

I demoed some Graham Audio speakers, the LS 5/9 and the Chartwell 3/5. And there wasn't a hint of sibliance to hear. And that was with several different amps and digital sources. I have demoed Harbeths and Spendors which are also smooth sounding, but even they can be a bit sharp if the recording isn't top notch.
A buddy of mine built the Audioexcite Prestigious Two Monitor DXT, and it is also extremely smooth sounding and more or less sibliant free.
I have a modified QLN 121 with a old Vifa C17 and a Seas 27TDFC in a Visoton waveguide with only a cap and a coil as crossover, and that speaker is also almost free of any sibliant.

So I am wondering what makes a speaker more prone to sibliants? It cannot only be frequency response, but I guess a rise in level in the 2-5 khz wouldn't exactly help. PP midwoofers and soft dome tweeters normally sounds smooth, but they are not immune to sibliants.

Break up nodes, higher order distortion artefacts, phase tracking, crossover types... What is the main reason for these unpleasant sibliants?
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Old 18th January 2019, 11:06 AM   #2
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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Non sibliant speakers
One possible explanation here Can you have sparkling treble but without sibilance

edit: subsequent posts worth reading as well! Quite a goldmine of information in that thread.
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Last edited by wintermute; 18th January 2019 at 11:20 AM. Reason: add additional comment.
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Old 18th January 2019, 11:10 AM   #3
denibeni is offline denibeni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbarth View Post
I demoed some Graham Audio speakers, the LS 5/9 and the Chartwell 3/5. And there wasn't a hint of sibliance to hear.

"Dense, close, but also quite gentle - lack of insistence and sharpness. The limited timbre, resolution and extension of treble, but very good attachment to the diameter, the whole "conglomerate" sounds natural, friendly, although without great dynamics and transparency. The addition of specific color tones in the low tones emphasizes the "climate"."

GRAHAM AUDIO LS5/9 - Zespoły głośnikowe | Testy w Audio.com.pl

I don't see anything special in the high range except above 10kHz, but this is not the place of sibilance I believe or still?
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File Type: jpg Graham_ls5_9_lab2.jpg (84.2 KB, 260 views)

Last edited by denibeni; 18th January 2019 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:48 PM   #4
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Non sibliant speakers
I'm sitting in a large meeting recording the presenters. I have a waterfall graph running to spot any trouble areas.
All the sibilance I hear show up as a heavy line between 4K-12K. I've rolled off the mics at 12K. Energy up there sound sibilant whether it's coming from the source or the speaker. Maybe peaks and ringing in the tweeter adds to it?

In the image below that I just snapped you'll see the SSS sound by an American male speaker. The sibilance stands out by itself.
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File Type: jpg sibilance.jpg (89.4 KB, 213 views)
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Old 18th January 2019, 04:19 PM   #5
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denibeni View Post
"Dense, close, but also quite gentle - lack of insistence and sharpness. The limited timbre, resolution and extension of treble, but very good attachment to the diameter, the whole "conglomerate" sounds natural, friendly, although without great dynamics and transparency. The addition of specific color tones in the low tones emphasizes the "climate"."

GRAHAM AUDIO LS5/9 - Zespoły głośnikowe | Testy w Audio.com.pl

I don't see anything special in the high range except above 10kHz, but this is not the place of sibilance I believe or still?
If red line is 0 degree, I can see common 2-5K dip.
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Old 18th January 2019, 07:35 PM   #6
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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Pano very interesting. That clearly shows where the trouble zone is!

Tony.
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Old 18th January 2019, 08:21 PM   #7
cbarth is offline cbarth  Norway
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Two songs I tried with the Grahams. Chris Rea: Long is the time, hard is the road, and Darkside: Paper Trails.
On the Paper Trails song, there is overall nice smooth sound, but when he pronounce "s" and sometimes "f", it cuts through and it is frustrating because that totally ruins the experience. On the Grahams I could just crank it, with no sharp edges at all, pure pleasure.
On the Long is the night, hard is the road track, Chris Rea's voice is in general a bit shrill in all the upper registers of his voice. Now the Grahams cannot make a poor recording sound good, but at least it doesn't feel like someone is trying to poke you in the ears with a piece of barbed wire!
The difference becomes bigger and bigger as the volume goes up.
This was a test I asked for of the Graham retailer, and one of the amps was the Devaliet 1000 pro, and he cranked the LS 5/9's so loud it nearly blew my socks off. I mean it was ludacris loud, it was ridiculus. I never , ever play that loud, to be honest I was a bit shocked just at how loud and dynamic these speakers could play. But even then there was no sibliants!
How come??
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Old 18th January 2019, 09:01 PM   #8
denibeni is offline denibeni
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In the test I linked, it is clear that the crossover consists of Jantzen Cross-Caps.
That's what I like in a passive crossover. Not overly detailed, maybe it takes some detail, but it is more natural and not at all obtrusive and fake than many expensive capacitors (like Mundorf Supreme).
Every time I tried a boutique capacitor (mainly on tweeter), I was relieved as often as I reinstalled the Cross-Caps.

I don't know the tweeter, but the grid is interesting before it. It was as if it was retrofitted.
The midwoofer cone looks like a poly, which is good for avoiding nasty break-ups.

Last edited by denibeni; 18th January 2019 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 18th January 2019, 09:34 PM   #9
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Non sibliant speakers
Quote:
Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
Pano very interesting. That clearly shows where the trouble zone is!
Yeah, it's "fun" to sit here 8 hours a day watching the spectrum and listening to people talk. It's pretty clear what is what in the vocal sounds. The sibilance really stands out. That older thread was a good read.

Another intriguing thing is to watch the lines bend as someone slides the tone on a word.
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