Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

My first build and i want to do something near impossible i think ...
My first build and i want to do something near impossible i think ...
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd January 2019, 04:43 PM   #61
Meshach is offline Meshach  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Wales , UK
Ok, i understand what your all getting at. My speakers are rubbish and i should replace them. ( this is the very end goal, to craft my own speakers )
Before i do this i still need the measuring equipment, miniDSP's and another two amps for bi-amping.
If i buy these components it will certainly improve the sound of my current speakers and give me the opportunity to fiddle with an active crossover.
Then i can build a set of speakers.

Thank you

Meshach
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2019, 06:13 PM   #62
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
diyAudio Member
 
Lojzek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Croatia
That I certainly have not said, much less meant. The filter is the heart of how the speaker will sound, well almost, not entirely. I am confident that the units are absolutely alright.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2019, 10:34 PM   #63
Meshach is offline Meshach  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Wales , UK
I'm sorry, i have not explained properly.
The new amps will improve the sound quality i think because of the L+R separation.
The MiniDSP is for my own experimentation and to try and lean hands on about crossovers and acoustics.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2019, 03:35 AM   #64
Think is online now Think  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Den Haag/The Hague, Holland, The Netherlands
My first build and i want to do something near impossible i think ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
Linn Majik 140 is an ideal candidate for a complete crossover redesign, possibly a baffle mod as well.
I read this as: good speakers with room for improvement in the crossovers.....

Instead of


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meshach View Post
Ok, i understand what your all getting at. My speakers are rubbish and i should replace them. ( this is the very end goal, to craft my own speakers )
....
So the minidsp is a good way to improve things if you get it right.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2019, 03:44 AM   #65
Think is online now Think  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Den Haag/The Hague, Holland, The Netherlands
My first build and i want to do something near impossible i think ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
Looking at the measurements of Linn Majik in Stereophile, I don't believe that minidsp would do miracles to it.
No, but it can probably do a better job
Quote:
ANY mid-price 2-way speaker does better
If you talk about off axis response, I do not agree as many/most (?) speakers have worse off axis response.
Quote:
and if one wants to hear low bass, a sealed sub or a wisely chosen large 3-way speaker will deliver that.
Do agree strongly
Quote:
With diy and dsp it is very difficult to make a speaker that is worse that that Linn.
Because of ........
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2019, 09:39 AM   #66
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Juhazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
I don't want to stir this soup more, but Majik speakers have a strange cavity behind the super tweeter. All models present almost one octave 6-7dB dip 2-4kHz on-axis. Stereophile averages +/- 15¤ hor response and dip is still very prominent and makes strong coloration to sound. This is impossible to fix with dsp.

Bass reflex tuning of the 140 is OK, but spl is low, eq below 60Hz woud raise distortion of the single woofer remerkably. Bass might be ok when placed next to wall made of concrete or bricks.

Woofer-mid slopes don't sum like they should in 140, presenting a wide and deep dip around 300Hz. This can be easily fixed with multichannel dsp and multiamping, by setting highpass to mid and flipping it's polarity. This might help a littel te treble dip too (look at step response).

Majik 140 individual responses, from Stereophile
Click the image to open in full size.

Room response (room mode making 30Hz bump)
Click the image to open in full size.

Linn Majik 140 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
Linn Majik 109 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

To sum it, Majik 140 breaks many basic rules of loudspeaker design. If a diyer reads diyaudio.com/multi-way carefully and listens to advice given, the end result is guaranteed to surpass Majik 140's performance in every category.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg majik140 flip step.jpg (43.2 KB, 54 views)
__________________
Radikal aktivist AINOgradient speaker project

Last edited by Juhazi; 23rd January 2019 at 09:54 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2019, 11:15 AM   #67
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Juhazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
Just one more thing about 140s bass. Because the closed box mid and ported woofer both got down, their responses develop phase difference below 60Hz (port signal is always inverted and tuning freq.) Best solution would be to blowck the woofer's port and change it's serial inductor to approx. half the value, then it would be .5 system.

Using dsp to lift woofer's top end will easily lead to clipping in digital domain, not recommended!

Obviously 140 was "designed" by just adding a woofer with lowpass filter below 109, and leaving it's crossover as is.
__________________
Radikal aktivist AINOgradient speaker project
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2019, 02:39 PM   #68
Meshach is offline Meshach  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Wales , UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
I read this as: good speakers with room for improvement in the crossovers.....

Instead of
"Originally Posted by Meshach View Post
Ok, i understand what your all getting at. My speakers are rubbish and i should replace them. ( this is the very end goal, to craft my own speakers )
...."

So the minidsp is a good way to improve things if you get it right.
Im sorry, this was a dry joke about my speakers being rubbish, not a stab at you good people ! In future i will a point of making it more obvious i'm joking.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2019, 02:46 PM   #69
Meshach is offline Meshach  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Wales , UK
Juhazi

Thank you for the advice given, it brought me to the conclusion i'm a bit of a fool.
The speakers were bought from a HiFi shop my family has gone to for 35 years so i naturally took the advice of the salesman and was given a good price.
At the time i assumed the Majik series of speakers came in two sizes, bookshelf and floor standing.
If i had known at the time they also made a subwoofer i would have realised its essentially a 5.1 speaker system and would'nt have bought my speakers.
At the time i wanted some PMC FB1 , i was advised against this and to buy linn.
Never mind... I will continue to read and speak with people on the site and as you suggested, eventually build my own speakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2019, 07:02 PM   #70
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Juhazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
No, it is called advertizing! Linn is very good at it and most likely also the salesman knows his job!

"Few other speakers at this level can boast Majik 140's credentials. The four drive units on each speaker supply power and precision in the bass and midrange, together with incredible clarity and smooth, even dispersion at high frequencies. All this technology means that no matter what you listen to, Majik 140 will serve it up with an effortless enthusiasm." Linn — Majik 140 System

Subwoofer, in .1 system is something that I don't like for music, and many agree. I have used them for ages, also .2 and .3 but they are pain in the bottom to get right. I ended up to using subwoofer drivers in closed box as integrated part of stereo speakers. And now I realized that I had lost/wasted 35 years of my life listening to ported speakers and subs! My first hifi-speakers were 3-way with closed box, way back in '70s.

Go for a 3-way speaker with a generous (sub)woofer (or 2 standard woofers) and dsp-plate amp like Hypex FA123 or FA 253. Much easier and cost-effective than designing passive 3-way speakers of similar performance!
__________________
Radikal aktivist AINOgradient speaker project

Last edited by Juhazi; 23rd January 2019 at 07:06 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


My first build and i want to do something near impossible i think ...Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it that impossible? Nosian Pass Labs 9 5th March 2015 12:00 AM
mission impossible & bdm47 Multi-Way 1 26th May 2012 07:42 PM
Jvc RC-EZ51 impossible to buy Nomdi Swap Meet 5 1st October 2011 10:46 AM
Impossible to find pot??? highspeedsentry Parts 20 8th July 2011 01:32 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki