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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 18th January 2019, 02:52 AM   #91
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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OK I've put my work on public display. So you want to design your own speaker from scratch! It will be a work in progress for a while I suspect. I probably won't get a chance to do the next installment till next week sometime.

Tony.
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:21 AM   #92
Rady is online now Rady  United States
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If you build a crossover by ears, you will not be satisfied ever. Permanently you will try to improve, to modify. Again and again. You will spend a lot of time and never be sure it is best design.
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Old 18th January 2019, 10:16 AM   #93
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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There is no best design apparently, all compromises, the one I most often come down on the side of is one crossover point as low as possible
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Old 18th January 2019, 10:25 AM   #94
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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Yep I believe that is why there are so many different "best" speakers. It all depends on which compromises a particular person is willing to live with!

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Old 18th January 2019, 11:03 AM   #95
reddiesel is offline reddiesel  England
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Cool HFA transmision line monitors

I dont know if any of the older generation remember the high fi answers magazines transmision line monitors from about 1973 i think, i still have a pair i built but have been modified over the years they were a 4 way design, the coles super tweeters were the first to blow , they have ended up as a 3 way , the kef drivers have been replaced i think the tweeter and mid are peerless or seas now it's been a while? the b139 i replaced with a 12" driver it only just squeezed in with some jigsawing, the crossover was the uprated 100 watt one i think from wimslow audio and is still the same, it would be interesting to measure the response it's probably way out, but to my ears they sound great ,the bass is much better i thought the b139 was weak and the tweeter is sweeter than the old t27, the mid sounds better in phase the old 110 was out of phase on the x over for some reason, i still use them now , i hope i havn't gone off topic too much but to my ears i think they sound really good!
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Old 18th January 2019, 11:30 AM   #96
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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^I was extremely happy with my three way speakers for many years. They started out quite differently to yours, but sounds like a similar journey. It was when I heard some $35,000 Infinity speakers in the early 90's that my illusions were shattered!! Up to that point all of the commercial speakers I'd heard I wasn't that interested in.

That is why now that I'm happy with my current speakers, I don't go out listening to anything high end, just in case I once again I find my speakers that I am currently happy with, lacking

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Old 18th January 2019, 12:46 PM   #97
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Until recently, I was overlooking the "voicing" of the speaker.

I was correcting my speakers with Dr. Toole's "flat" house curve. I was very happy with the sound, but I recently realized that I can make it more preferable by voicing speakers with BBC curve, which has 2dB dip around 2-5K. In fact, a lot of popular high end commercial consumer speakers use this curve according to Stereophile measurement. Easier to listen to, more Hi-Fi feel than Monitor feel.

I believe it's impossible to be tuned by ear without measurement, but it's also impossible to finish tuning without ear. 0.5dB difference at 2K, 2000Hz vs 2200Hz crossover point makes a huge subjective difference once the speaker gets closer to your ideal speaker.
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:52 PM   #98
Schmitz77 is offline Schmitz77  Germany
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I tunes my speakers just by ear and they sound fine, but I don't belief that they have a flat response. It would be interesting, which response curve they have. Is there something like an app for measuring this on my android phone?
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Old 18th January 2019, 04:09 PM   #99
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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plasnu, Toole's recommendations are based on listener evaluations, but there is devil in details. It is very important to know a speaker's radiation pattern, DI through it's range. Different shape of DI gives different farfield/room response. BBC curve is usually seen in on-axis response at 1m, and speakers with dome tweeters.

I seem to end with very gently sloping room-response, which typically means recessed on-axis response at 2-5kHz. response above 8kHz is practically out of my hearing, but I can hear changes there too. If room response has a dip at 2-5kHz it means that 500-1kHz is too hard, sound is harsch and cold to me. A bit elevated bass-low mid gives lots of warmth and nearness, but very easily gets too thick and muddy. Lowest bass is surprisingly important too, smooth 20-50Hz adds space and ambience (when it comes from a sealed driver).

I have measured and listened to several my projects is various environments and learned to finally trust my ears more than measurements. When crossovers are basically OK and on-axis and off-axis response don't have sharp changes, voicing is easy with dsp or even with amplifier's bass/treble adjustment.
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Old 18th January 2019, 04:42 PM   #100
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Juhazi, thank you. Now you have made me remember that I was moving measurement mic here and there when I applied Toole's curve a few years ago, and was scratching my head wondering which mic position is the most trustful! LOL. I measured @1m this time with a bit more confidence.
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