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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Building my first 2 way
Building my first 2 way
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:07 PM   #1
Etaoin314 is offline Etaoin314  United States
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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Default Building my first 2 way

Hi guys, I am relatively new to the hobby and everyone here has been such a great help. Anyway I have a couple of Dayton ps95 drivers sitting around that I would like to use as mid-tweets in a BR two way desktop speaker. It will be in a smallish bedroom/office on my computer desk about 6in from a wall and I hope to make it sound better than the Andrew Jones Pioneers SP-BS-22's I am using now.

My limitations
- Size: approximately 0.3 - 0.7 cu ft (some flexibility here),
- price (under $40 per driver ideally but also some flexibility if the value is
there)
- frequency-wise I would like to hit the low 50's if possible and lower is
better.
- Crossover design is the part I am least familiar/confident so I would like to keep it as simple as possible. I am thinking because of the ps95 acting as tweeter I may be able to get by with a first order (or 2nd order at most) lowpass on the woofer and let the ps95 run full range if possible (but I would love to hear your opinions if this is a bad idea).

I am struggling to find the best match for a woofer. i have looked at everything on PE from 4-8 inches and the choices seem overwhelming. Because of the low efficiency of the ps95 (85.5 db/w/m) I think anything above 86db is a poor choice (am I right in thinking this?) so that helps cut thing down a bit but that only eliminates a handful of options. so here are a couple I am considering and If you could help me understand the pros and cons of each (or suggest better alternatives) I would really appreciate it.

1. HIVI B4N (HiVi B4N 4" Aluminum Round Frame Midbass) I like the smaller size which should allow for a narrow baffle, impedence, sensitivity, price and frequency response are right in a reasonable enclosure (0.27cu ft). My concerns are that the metallic cone will be hard to blend with the paper of the ps95.

2. Dayton Audio DA135-8 5-1/4" (Dayton Audio DA135-8 5-1/4" Aluminum Cone Woofer) other than being a little bigger it has many of the same attributes as the HIVI except it can go much higher and so gives me more flexibility with the crossover. there is also a 7" (Dayton Audio DA175-8 7" Aluminum Cone Woofer) version of this driver that can go even lower that may be a good match.

3. Peerless by Tymphany 830656 5-1/4" (Peerless by Tymphany 830656 5-1/4" Paper Cone SDS Woofer) the main advantage of this is that it has a paper cone so that may be easier to blend with the ps95, also cheap and has a narrow cutout

4. Visaton W170S-8 6.5" (Visaton W170S-8 6.5" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 8 Ohm) again paper cone may be better for my purposes and and goes low in a reasonable size cabinet.

5.HiVi M8N 8" Aluminum / Magnesium Woofer (https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-m...fer--297-446)- a bit on the large side for my purpose but can really dig deep, though my target cabinet size would have to be smaller than ideal for this driver.

6. Dayton Audio DC160-8 6-1/2" Classic Woofer (https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-305)
again paper cone goes nice and low in a reasonable size and price is good.

So any feedback would be great, are there important factors that I am missing here that would eliminate one or more? Should I be looking at other options? Thanks for all the advice and wisdom!
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Old 13th January 2019, 09:18 AM   #2
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Find yourself an 8" 8 ohm woofer to match the ps95 sensitivity. Woofer spl spec at 89dB, minus 4-5 dB of baffle step and you will end up where you should be.
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Old 13th January 2019, 12:47 PM   #3
bullittstang is offline bullittstang  United States
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Default Building my first 2 way

You donít mention your low-end requirements (edit-you did and you can hit 50ís easy)? I have been happy with the 6-1/2Ē Dayton Classic in 0.50ft3 and it could easily go in a smaller box if you donít need as much low-end.
I donít personally consider an 8Ē woofer a desktop monitor size speaker, but thatís up to you. Good luck!
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Old 13th January 2019, 03:01 PM   #4
montana1 is offline montana1  United States
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Hi Etaion314,
If looking in the 6-6.5" driver class take a close look at the SB 17MFC35-8 @ Madisound for $60.30. This driver is very easy is to work with and requires minimal Xover parts. Typical of SB Acoustics, it is also made very well and looks to be worth much more then the asking price. I wish now I would have discovered the SB line when starting off in this hobby a few years ago. Just my 2 cents.

Best Regards,
Rich
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Old 13th January 2019, 03:15 PM   #5
bullittstang is offline bullittstang  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montana1 View Post
Hi Etaion314,

If looking in the 6-6.5" driver class take a close look at the SB 17MFC35-8 @ Madisound for $60.30. This driver is very easy is to work with and requires minimal Xover parts. Typical of SB Acoustics, it is also made very well and looks to be worth much more then the asking price. I wish now I would have discovered the SB line when starting off in this hobby a few years ago. Just my 2 cents.



Best Regards,

Rich


+1 - if you can stretch your budget.
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Old 14th January 2019, 06:21 PM   #6
Etaoin314 is offline Etaoin314  United States
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Thanks for the advice guys! I dont think I can stretch my budget that far for the SB for this project. The dayton classic does look very attractive.

Lojzek (nice to see fellow Croatians around!) - I am a little confused by the recommendation to use a woofer that is more sensitive than my tweeter (or in this case midtweet) I thought it was better to have the tweeter be more sensitive and put a resistor on it to bring it down to the woofer. I am wrong in thinking this? also thanks for pointing out the need for BSC, i am still new to this and dont fully understand yet, but have just looked up some articles and am starting to get it.
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Old 14th January 2019, 07:14 PM   #7
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Thank you Etaoin314, it is nice to be around among good people and be able to help around and learn a lot as well. Usually the tweeters are more sensitive than other drivers, so the need to pad tweeters down becomes necessary. Since you are to build a woofer assisted wideband loudspeaker, you can seize the opportunity to not waste any power in resistive elements, particularly because there is no point to further reduce the overall sensitivity. A simulation of a virtual loudspeaker can reveal what will be the case for a specific driver combination. Let me know what Dayton Audio drivers you are interested in and I will perform some for you to take into consideration. This baffle step thing is important because it can make a huge difference in how it will eventually sound. Speaker placed in open space well away from wall boundaries does not get the usual sound reinforcement as it would have been if it were close to corners and backwall. This should be decided before the design gets to be proclaimed finished, crossover wise. Let me know the baffle measures of the loudspeaker to be or I can propose some and will post here the results.
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Last edited by Lojzek; 14th January 2019 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 14th January 2019, 08:06 PM   #8
montana1 is offline montana1  United States
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Hi Etaoin314,
Another driver to consider is SB 16PFC25-8 for $27.80 @ Madisound. It models well in Unibox as does the Dayton DC160-8. Lojzek is super knowledgeable and will get you an outstanding design. He has helped me on a couple occasions with superb results.

Best Regards,
Rich
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Old 14th January 2019, 08:22 PM   #9
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Don't mention it Rich, it was eons ago. Still, thank you.
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Old 15th January 2019, 08:15 PM   #10
Etaoin314 is offline Etaoin314  United States
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Thanks Lojzek! That certainly helps explain it. I had been seeing a lot of designs that took down the sensitivity of the high end and assumed it was a "rule" so it is helpful to understand the theory when you see the exception to the rule (i.e. when the high end is less sensitive).

So if I understand the baffle step problem correctly, i want to attenuate all frequencies above that correspond to a wavelength shorter than the width of my front baffle. in a traditional tweeter/woofer combination this is done by BSC circuit on the woofer and a resistor on the tweeter correct? however since I have a lot of latitude to choose my crossover point I would want to choose a woofer with higher sensitivity (6db in an anechoic chamber but more like 4-5 db in a live room) and cross it over to the "full range" driver at the frequency that correlates with the width of the front baffle. So the wider my front baffle the lower I can cross it over and that way I can avoid having to do a baffle step correction in the crossover. However i am still a little confused because based on this theory If I want a front baffle of 20cm i should cross over around 1700hz (as long as the woofer can go that high) correct? but when I put these values into this calculator (Loudspeaker Diffraction Loss and Baffle Step Compensation Circuits) It says that the midpoint of the transition between 2pi and 4 pi space is 570hz which seems way off. what am I missing. Thanks for your patience and insight!
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