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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Worlds best two way domestic loudspeaker?
Worlds best two way domestic loudspeaker?
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:18 PM   #1
celef is offline celef
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Default Worlds best two way domestic loudspeaker?

I love the apparent simplicity of single driver loudspeakers but all have sonic flaws, a small driver has no low end, a large driver has poor hiend, and drivers in between... got nothing. I know deep inside that 3 ways are the ideal loudspeaker, the midrange driver does not have to deal with bass frequencies nor high frequencies and that is a huge benefit. However, i do think my 3 ways can be overly unfriendly and complex, when going active i have cables and amps all over the place, and turning to passives it gets even worse with more cables and crossover parts all over my listening room floor, there is almost no free space to walk on, i have to climb on the furnitures. Therefor i think 2 ways are the very best compromise, that will for sure free up some space in my room. I want a speaker with a good midrange, bass that peaks a little at 40-50hz and a tweeter that is kind on the ear, which drivers would you choose?
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:23 PM   #2
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Worlds best two way domestic loudspeaker?
You've posed a very difficult question. At least you have (sort of) defined your goals.
However:
  • Budget?
  • Box size?
  • Room size?
  • WAF?
  • Your taste in music?
  • Your skill level?
If I had to recommend just a single 2 way design to someone, I'd suggest the good old Altec Model 19. It's well loved and good for a wide range of music.
But if you wanted something smaller, more modern and also well loved, look up the Econowave project. It has a huge following and tons of builds on this forum and others.

If open baffle strikes your fancy, you could see my long running thread on the Manzanita project. Plenty of options there, too.
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:26 PM   #3
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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IMO most reasonably priced cones larger than approx. 6-7 inch are too compromised in both dispersion and cone behavior at the point where most reasonably priced tweeters need to cross over, about 2-3 Khz.

Sooo If your not going to spend a lot and you want a 2 way with at least a reasonable dynamic range and bass extension, then the "2 1/2 way" is your friend.
Simpler two way design with an added woofer often with nothing more than one inductor going to it. This extra woofer takes care of the lean bass below the baffle step of a typical small cone 2 way and increases sensitivity 3-4 db.

If ya want to spend more there are many other ways that Im sure others will mention but the above is imo the easy and cheapest way to get it done.

I recommend this tweeter for smooth response and very easy simple to use. Quite good bang for buck and can cross low, maybe around 2 Khz or even a bit less.

Peerless by Tymphany XT25TG30-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter

Heres a good woofer, again very easy to use due to smooth response and a good motor.

SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-8 6" Poly Cone Woofer

This is the poly version. Its made in paper and aluminum as well but the poly is seriously easy to use

heres a cheat sheet ha

SBAcoustics-61-MFC

Last edited by lowmass; 11th January 2019 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:35 PM   #4
lcsaszar is offline lcsaszar  Hungary
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If you can clone the Celestion SL6, you are at target.
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Old 11th January 2019, 05:26 PM   #5
John Busch is offline John Busch  United States
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Default Smallish woofers

Lowmass.... I have found that a larger woofer, say 8" - 10" class work way better than nearly all 2-1/2 way using a pair of 6" class woofers. I will admit, if one chooses, or has to stick with as narrow a baffle as possible, there is little choice (default if you will) to go to a 2-1/2 way set up. This assumes the final design has any chance at reasonable bass extension and output.

It comes down, as it always does to sound (no pun intended) engineering. Driver choice, and excellent crossover design. Very few multi-way driver designs do justice to the drivers used. Crossover is SO important. It is amazing how much you can get from well designed low cost drivers. And there are a lot of them out there. We are talking about woofers from less than $20 up to say $70 and tweeters from less than $20 to about $35 each.

You can build a 12" two way with a crossover as high as 2K that will literally disappear. It can have excellent power response and consistent off axis dispersion throughout the mid and upper ranges. 750 - 15K Hz. Easy, no. Doable and effective, yes. Some of the advantages of the larger woofer include minimal driver center to center distance, much lower intermodulation distortion at similar output, simpler crossover, equal or lower cost, simpler baffle fabrication, lower usable frequency extension and higher output capabilities.
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Old 11th January 2019, 06:02 PM   #6
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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I actually agree with you John, completely.
My problem is I dont know which of the more affordable larger woofers work well.
And yes you are so right about inexpensive drivers performing way above expectations when used with skill.

I am finishing up development on a smaller ribbon capable of good perf to 1K and want to build a two way around it using 8-10 " and also developing a wave guide for the ribbon to use with 15" woof

Would love to get your suggestions on those.

Last edited by lowmass; 11th January 2019 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:38 PM   #7
John Busch is offline John Busch  United States
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Low mass... on the 8-10", what alignment? Sealed, ported, OB or other? Also desired LF cut off and overall system net efficiency?
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Old 11th January 2019, 08:10 PM   #8
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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for the 8-10"

would like to try both ported and sealed

LF cut -3 at 50, of course lower if possible. I tend to like the shallower roll offs btw

Net sens min 87 max 90


For the 12-15"

both port and sealed

-3 at 30, again lower if can

net sensitivity 93 to 96
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:51 PM   #9
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Worlds best two way domestic loudspeaker?
There is no best because there are so many different sets of compromises that are valid.

Myself, i love the magic that a good FR brings to the table, and feel that a WAW (2-way with low XO), can bring as much bass extension as you can afford (money/size/WAF), and with no heavy lifting in the bass, the FR actually gets better, with a virtual elimatination of the evils of XOS. Downside is that it is hard (& expensive) to do a passive XO this low (but possible)/

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Old 12th January 2019, 07:37 AM   #10
celef is offline celef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
You've posed a very difficult question. <snip>
I do not want to limit myself, not just yet, but i do have a very small listening room and that is a limiting factor. Thanks for your suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowmass View Post
IMO most reasonably priced cones larger than approx. 6-7 inch are too compromised in both dispersion and cone behavior at the point where most reasonably priced tweeters need to cross over, about 2-3 Khz. <snip>
Funny that you mention these drivers since they are what i listen to at the moment, the scan speak version on the tweeter though. They sit in 30 litre floor standing boxes and tuned to 40hz, the motor is a bit weak and i think i need bigger boxes for more output at 40-50hz, i like it a bit peaky in that register. I like these drivers better then the satoris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcsaszar View Post
If you can clone the Celestion SL6, you are at target.
Thank you for the suggestion, i will check them up

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
There is no best because there are so many different sets of compromises that are valid. <snip>
I have tried fast type speakers with tg9 and different woofers, very impressive at first but not so in the longer run, i thought tg9 started to sound stressed at little higher sound levels, maybe i should order 10f and try the concept again.
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