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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Selecting Amp's power
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Old 10th January 2019, 08:46 PM   #11
Gaussem is offline Gaussem
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Hello,

The drivers I chose are :
Woofer : Dayton Audio ES180TiA-8 7" Esoteric Series Woofer 8 Ohm
Tweeter : Peerless DA32TX00-08 1-1/4" Corundum Dome Tweeter

(To be honest, I'm thinking about changing because it comes more expensive that expected)

The box is designed with WinISD and I'm using a passive radiator to minimise the volume.

I use VituixCAD to design the crossover I came up with what's in the attached captures.
I didn't take care of phase yet, I need to get more knowledge about this to know what I'm doing.
Crossover frequency is around 1kHz.

I was planning on using a passive crossover but I found articles (ESP Projects for example) that says that Active Bi-Ampling makes all the difference.

About active cross-over, is it designed the same way but before the amplifier ?
Do you agree that it would be a better solution ?
Regarding to active crossover, I was thinking about a outside crossover + amp to save money.

Thanks,
Have a nice day.
Attached Images
File Type: png ES140TiA+Peerless_DA32TX00-08_SPL.png (23.8 KB, 53 views)
File Type: png ES140TiA+Peerless_DA32TX00-08_GD+Phase.png (22.5 KB, 53 views)
File Type: png ES140TiA+Peerless_DA32TX00-08_Impedance.png (24.7 KB, 53 views)
File Type: png ES140TiA+Peerless_DA32TX00-08_Filter.png (14.6 KB, 53 views)
File Type: png Crossover.PNG (10.4 KB, 52 views)
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Old 10th January 2019, 09:44 PM   #12
Bare is offline Bare  Canada
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: vancouver
You can also build a Passive inline / in front of the Amps crossover.
Easier and cheaper to build with V V small perf differences to an Active (powered) version.
Real issue is having twin worth owning Amps.
That.. usually separates the men from the boys tho.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:17 AM   #13
Gaussem is offline Gaussem
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Hello Bare,

I'm not sure what you mean by passive inline ?
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Old 11th January 2019, 10:58 AM   #14
Gaussem is offline Gaussem
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Join Date: Nov 2018
A thing I'm not sure to understand :

For difference between active and passive, is it only that the crossover is placed before or after the amplifiers ?

Is it the same components or is a different filters ?

Thanks
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Old 11th January 2019, 01:08 PM   #15
digitalthor is offline digitalthor  Denmark
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaussem View Post
A thing I'm not sure to understand :

For difference between active and passive, is it only that the crossover is placed before or after the amplifiers ?

Is it the same components or is a different filters ?

Thanks

There are several differences. Typical passive design, is with some larger passive components inside the speaker, that divide the frequency band into appropiate levels and frequency ranges for each driver. So the amplifier sees the whole frequency range, but the filter splits up - lets say - at 2500hz and above for the tweeter and 2500hz and below for the midrange/bass. Problem is with passive filters, is that they change with load and frequency. So the amplifier has a bigger job to manage and you cant be 100% sure that your original filter calculations are the same as what you hear, when playing music. It is also more difficult to manage the different components, to build a succesfull passive filter, that works in unity with the drivers and the amplifier you choose.


When going active. The main point is, that you have an amplifier dedicated to each driver, so that the amplifier sees only the coil in the driver, and no other passive components, that could alter performance.

Then you have a filter in front of the amplifier at line level, not at the higher power level from the output of the amplifier.
An active filter today is typically a DSP, that takes in a analog signal, converts it to digital, where it can manipulate the signal to almost anything you might want. Of course there are limits, because you have to convert back to analog before you can send the signal to the amplifiers.
So with a full range stereo signal. You can in the DSP, split it up at the before mentioned 2500hz and then send only the frequencies above and below this frequency, to its dedicated amplifier, for each driver. This way, you could have a smaller amplifier for the tweeter, since it newer sees any low frequencies, beacuse the DSP has filtered them away. And you could also use a more beefy amplifier for the bass, that might play a little louder, but in the DSP you set gain and EQ as well, so that the finished result is linear.
Of course there are limits and boundaries for everything, which you have to respect and understand, before you combine it all. But with the active system, you have potentially way more control and finesse, that with any passive design.


Oh - remember to measure. The acoustical output of a system is not always what you might have hoped for. You may have chosen filters of a certain type and so on. But the physical rules for the drivers, enclosure and room acoustics, are still king.


Hope you understand what I mean and that it was helpfull in some sense


One last thing. Active filter also - whether they are analog or digital - have input output buffers, so that they do not alter the signal comming in and out, with respect to impedance. Especially after the amplifier, it is important that active solution do not suffer from impedance matching, like passive designs do = No zobel network and so on are neccesary.

Last edited by digitalthor; 11th January 2019 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:24 PM   #16
Gaussem is offline Gaussem
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Thanks, I understand better now

So active filter would be DSP and is a better solution than a cross-over before amp, right ?

About DSP, is it complicated to understand and design it ? I have absolutely no knowledge about this and I wonder if I need a long time to figure it out ?

Would you have a example of DSP module that would be suitable for :

- An external box Filtering + amp that's connected to two monitoring type speakers (So 2 stereo out - 4 RCA or BIG jack)
- A selection of source from (with knob selector)
- Bluetooth (I would had a small volume)
- Phono In (RCA)
- Line In (RCA)
- Small or big jack in
- A knob to control volume
- Eventually a "Mute" button.
- Eventually 2 outputs selection (Between RCA and XLR)
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Old 11th January 2019, 05:41 PM   #17
digitalthor is offline digitalthor  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaussem View Post
Thanks, I understand better now

So active filter would be DSP and is a better solution than a cross-over before amp, right ?
Activer filters are before amps - both DSP and active-analog. Old passive filters are AFTER amps, inside speakers.



About DSP, is it complicated to understand and design it ? I have absolutely no knowledge about this and I wonder if I need a long time to figure it out ?

Depends. It's more easy to create active filter, than passive, because you can change values directly in the software and need not to solder any physical components.


Would you have a example of DSP module that would be suitable for :

- An external box Filtering + amp that's connected to two monitoring type speakers (So 2 stereo out - 4 RCA or BIG jack)
- A selection of source from (with knob selector)
- Bluetooth (I would had a small volume)
- Phono In (RCA)
- Line In (RCA)
- Small or big jack in
- A knob to control volume
- Eventually a "Mute" button.
- Eventually 2 outputs selection (Between RCA and XLR)

You could buy a minidsp filter. Many people in here can explain it easily for you.


But if you do not want to have all the hasle. Then just buy a finished active monitor speaker. They are not that expensive and can be found with all the filters and amplifiers build in. You could ad a classic preamp, to control everything you want.
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