Ok, so this might be long. My current speakers are flat within -+ 2 dB in room from 14-20k but, I think I could build a system that has lower distortion and more clarity in general. I built it over 20 years ago.
I am looking to build a system that can play at 105 dB with the lowest distortion possible. Most of my listening will be lower, around 90-95 dB.
I have taken distortion levels with my current system and at those levels, distortion is below 2% until about 28Hz. Levels rise to 10% at 20Hz.
My current system is a 2-way with a Peerless 5 1/4" woofer, a Dayton RS28 Tweeter and a Shiva 12" DVC subwoofer.
My thought is to do a 3 -way but, I am having trouble finding a midrange that will have enough sensitivity and power handling that will cross over higher than 2kHz but also cross over down low, maybe 200 Hz. Maybe I can crossover at 500Hz with the 8" drivers I am looking at but, the lower the better, I think. Thoughts?
I am looking at using four 8" drivers, two for each side in their own cabinets. I don't want big heavy towers.
I don't need to go to 14 Hz. 25 Hz will be fine, in room.
I like the sound of small drivers with small baffles or, maybe it's because the drivers are closer together. I don't know. I just know when I built a two way with a 7", I liked the sound of the 5 1/4" better.
Before I ramble any longer, any suggestions for a new system?
I am looking to build a system that can play at 105 dB with the lowest distortion possible. Most of my listening will be lower, around 90-95 dB.
I have taken distortion levels with my current system and at those levels, distortion is below 2% until about 28Hz. Levels rise to 10% at 20Hz.
My current system is a 2-way with a Peerless 5 1/4" woofer, a Dayton RS28 Tweeter and a Shiva 12" DVC subwoofer.
My thought is to do a 3 -way but, I am having trouble finding a midrange that will have enough sensitivity and power handling that will cross over higher than 2kHz but also cross over down low, maybe 200 Hz. Maybe I can crossover at 500Hz with the 8" drivers I am looking at but, the lower the better, I think. Thoughts?
I am looking at using four 8" drivers, two for each side in their own cabinets. I don't want big heavy towers.
I don't need to go to 14 Hz. 25 Hz will be fine, in room.
I like the sound of small drivers with small baffles or, maybe it's because the drivers are closer together. I don't know. I just know when I built a two way with a 7", I liked the sound of the 5 1/4" better.
Before I ramble any longer, any suggestions for a new system?
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Faitalpro make a 5 inch midrange with 99db @1w sensitivity that can be crossed over at around 400hz safely , and goes to 10khz flat. Just my two cents , I would use 24db /octave linkwitz crossovers for the best power handling and even dispersion no matter where you listen , given there is no severe loving issues in the drivers
The EM1308 mentioned above has exceptional clarity on vocals without sounding forward. They are a breath of fresh air compared to cone drivers. The limitation is the crossover; mine crossover at 730hz and that's the lowest I'd push them to.
I have them working well with an SEAS L18, but, the larger L22 works just as well. A couple of these H1208-08 L22RN4X/P would reach below 20hz without any difficulty.
I have them working well with an SEAS L18, but, the larger L22 works just as well. A couple of these H1208-08 L22RN4X/P would reach below 20hz without any difficulty.
I have looked at the Scan Speaks and would love to use them but the price is just a little to much for me.
The Seas drivers look really good. I might not need 4 of them. The Morel looks nice as well. My only question is how clean would the Seas driver work to say, 1khz?
I have always been under the impression that a small cone would do better than a dome for mid range duty. Is this unfounded?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of crossing over at 300-500hz vs. 800-1.2khz?
The Seas drivers look really good. I might not need 4 of them. The Morel looks nice as well. My only question is how clean would the Seas driver work to say, 1khz?
I have always been under the impression that a small cone would do better than a dome for mid range duty. Is this unfounded?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of crossing over at 300-500hz vs. 800-1.2khz?
Just a thought, if this is for recording studio duties then a flat response is probably the main objective. Therefore whatever you build I would suggest something active either discrete amps and a minidsp or something like the hypex fusion plate amps (fa123 etc). With these you can choose your crossovers and also take out any peaks/troughs to get that flat response.
Yes, it is for a studio. I am using an active crossover now with 4th order LR slopes. It is also tri-amped. It will stay this way, I just wanted to update the drivers and cabinets.
Flat response is very important of course. I do have room treatment but it may change depending on how the new speakers will be placed.
Flat response is very important of course. I do have room treatment but it may change depending on how the new speakers will be placed.
SB Acoustics ceramic are reported very low distortion in this forum, and they are low price. SB Acoustics mid/woofers are used by Allen Sides for Ocean Way Monitor, so I can say it is proven for professional use.
I heard some of the Ocean Way smaller ones with those SB aluminum units, and they sound surprisingly good. I think that they are crossed at 12dB with SEAS? tweeter. Find Allen Sides interview about it.
I heard some of the Ocean Way smaller ones with those SB aluminum units, and they sound surprisingly good. I think that they are crossed at 12dB with SEAS? tweeter. Find Allen Sides interview about it.
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You probably realize that regardless of what you do, you're making a trade-off relative to something OTHER that you could do.... so which is your priority...
You stated first line, lowest possible distortion... I would speculate that would mean making it horn loaded as a horn will do that for you. Even though you will listen at lower levels, that will only mean the distortion is essentially zero verses very small (as with direct radiators)
Yeah, you then said 8" drivers and you don't want big heavy towers (cabinets).... so like I said, pick your poison!!
The 2-way horns I have though huge, are the most articulate, lowest distortion speakers I've heard (admit I've not heard everything BUT, have been dabbling in this hobby of ours since about 1978)
The Klipschorn (3-way all horn loaded) is noted for being very low distortion. Its replacement, the Jubilee, is more coherent (2-way verses 3) and if I recall the story correctly, has 1/8th the distortion that the Khorn has.... AND, since it's a 2" upper horn, if you ever want to lay into the wood, it will also go much louder than the Khorn while still sounding much better...
Didn't you say you wanted a refrigerator sized speaker...?
Cabinet decision == large radius rounds on top and sides
Cabinet decision == separate TM top cabinet and bottom W-W woofer cabinet
Measurement data and pro-reviews from newer monitors like the Kii_3 and Dutch & Dutch 8C show benefits of building cabinets with large radius edge rounds. These cabinets are wider than traditional cabinets, even wider than pyramid shaped cabinet with just bevels on the top edges.
BIG ROUNDs ---- Spread Edge Diffraction Energy to Reduce Distortion
DSP can time align drivers, but cannot remove distortion from edge diffraction.
You can purchase MDF quarter rounds with 3" to 6" radius.
You can purchase a 1.5" quarter round cutter($100-150) for a router with 0.5" chuck.
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Speaker decision = natural sound to match customer high quality home systems
Tweeter = SB26STCN-4
1) smooth response past 20kHz
2) high 92db sensitivity
3) small 41mm internal diameter allows reduced center-to-center spacing with reduced lobing effects.
Midrange = Satori MR16P-4
1) low 0.16mH inductance motor
2) high 92db sensitivity. matches SB26STCN-4 tweeter
3) Vented aerodynamic cast aluminium chassis
4) Smooth sound from mixed-fiber paper cone
Two Woofers = SB23NACS45-8
1) Modest 0.6mH inductance motor
2) Geometrically reinforced aluminium cone for improved break-up control
3) Fs = 25Hz, Qtc = 0.4 designed for deep bass
4) Front mount for near side wall placement
- OR- side-side counter force mounting for low vibration
----------------
Cabinet decision == separate TM top cabinet and bottom W-W woofer cabinet
Measurement data and pro-reviews from newer monitors like the Kii_3 and Dutch & Dutch 8C show benefits of building cabinets with large radius edge rounds. These cabinets are wider than traditional cabinets, even wider than pyramid shaped cabinet with just bevels on the top edges.
BIG ROUNDs ---- Spread Edge Diffraction Energy to Reduce Distortion
DSP can time align drivers, but cannot remove distortion from edge diffraction.
You can purchase MDF quarter rounds with 3" to 6" radius.
You can purchase a 1.5" quarter round cutter($100-150) for a router with 0.5" chuck.
-----
Speaker decision = natural sound to match customer high quality home systems
Tweeter = SB26STCN-4
1) smooth response past 20kHz
2) high 92db sensitivity
3) small 41mm internal diameter allows reduced center-to-center spacing with reduced lobing effects.
Midrange = Satori MR16P-4
1) low 0.16mH inductance motor
2) high 92db sensitivity. matches SB26STCN-4 tweeter
3) Vented aerodynamic cast aluminium chassis
4) Smooth sound from mixed-fiber paper cone
Two Woofers = SB23NACS45-8
1) Modest 0.6mH inductance motor
2) Geometrically reinforced aluminium cone for improved break-up control
3) Fs = 25Hz, Qtc = 0.4 designed for deep bass
4) Front mount for near side wall placement
- OR- side-side counter force mounting for low vibration
----------------
Attachments
Thoughts on this for the mid range driver.Maybe use two for more power handling but I think the rating is for full range.
Tang Band W4-1337SDF 4" Titanium Full Range Speaker
Tang Band W4-1337SDF 4" Titanium Full Range Speaker
Linesource's suggestions are grand. This seems to be a great midrange driver.
Note: 92dB might be a SPL average which is inflated by the driver's rising response. For the OP's purposes (equalised flat, and run down to 200Hz), the 'real' sensitivity might be a bit lower, see link below.
Since budget is an issue
...maybe consider this virtually identical Tymphany driver. It costs a fair bit less.
Peerless by Tymphany NE180W-04 6-1/2" Full Range Woofer
3rd party measurements have been published for the 2 drivers.
Satori:
The MR16P-4 6.5” Satori Midrange from SB Acoustics | audioXpress
Tymphany:
Vifa NE180W-04 | HiFiCompass - всё для акустических систем и не только
As far as I can see, the drivers are so close in build style and performance that there's no reason to pay $60 more for the SB.
Note: 92dB might be a SPL average which is inflated by the driver's rising response. For the OP's purposes (equalised flat, and run down to 200Hz), the 'real' sensitivity might be a bit lower, see link below.
Since budget is an issue
...maybe consider this virtually identical Tymphany driver. It costs a fair bit less.
Peerless by Tymphany NE180W-04 6-1/2" Full Range Woofer
3rd party measurements have been published for the 2 drivers.
Satori:
The MR16P-4 6.5” Satori Midrange from SB Acoustics | audioXpress
Tymphany:
Vifa NE180W-04 | HiFiCompass - всё для акустических систем и не только
As far as I can see, the drivers are so close in build style and performance that there's no reason to pay $60 more for the SB.
Great proposal LineSource. Are there similar woofers with lighter cone?
This peerless mid is an interesting driver, but the Satori has a much better waterfall plot.
Both have very low Harmonic distortion.
Given the high Fres of the SB26STCN-4 tweeter, you cannot cross too low (maybe 2.5k+ 2nd), which means that the nasties of the peerless in the waterfall are going to be close to your cross-over and degrade overall clarity.
If OP decides to go for the peerless, then maybe the SB29RDC-4 with its good sensitivity and lower Fres might be a better combo.
This peerless mid is an interesting driver, but the Satori has a much better waterfall plot.
Both have very low Harmonic distortion.
Given the high Fres of the SB26STCN-4 tweeter, you cannot cross too low (maybe 2.5k+ 2nd), which means that the nasties of the peerless in the waterfall are going to be close to your cross-over and degrade overall clarity.
If OP decides to go for the peerless, then maybe the SB29RDC-4 with its good sensitivity and lower Fres might be a better combo.
Many recording studios have a few different monitors to compare the sound, and increase confidence of broad market acceptance.
If you cut wood for two TM tops now, you can later experiment with newer aluminum cone drivers like the SB_Acoustics SB17NAC35-4 midbass and SB26ADC-4 dome tweeter. recommended by others on this thread
If you cut wood for two TM tops now, you can later experiment with newer aluminum cone drivers like the SB_Acoustics SB17NAC35-4 midbass and SB26ADC-4 dome tweeter. recommended by others on this thread
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