Troels site provides info on the SBA61 that uses the 26adc with the SB17 woofer, three design with the poly, paper and aluminium version of that woofer. With a look to see what is possible in a small 2 way to put on top of the subs.
DIY-Loudspeakers
When I look at the HFiCompass waterfall plot, it appears that the Peerless driver has a 4.5kHz peak that's -40dB at 2ms.
The audiexpress waterfall plot for the Satori looks like it has a peak at the same frequency. The Satori peak is only 24dB down at 3ms.
So to my reading, the Satori has marginally more persistent "nasties" in the waterfall.
Am I interpreting the charts correctly?
Links again (this time in English)
The MR16P-4 6.5” Satori Midrange from SB Acoustics | audioXpress
Vifa NE180W-04 | HiFiCompass
Oddly, that site / spec sheet calls it a "Vifa NE180W-04" but other sites (Digikey) calls these drivers "Tymphany by Peerless" rather than Vifa.
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The 5.25 peerless will definitely have a "Gap" playing with a Shiva 12" DVC sub. I am currently using a 10" 3-way system with F3 ~ 43Hz and that blends very nicely with my Shiva subwoofer.
I would not call that a nearfield (if you mean for mastering music in a studio) system however. Mine has around 4 dB BSC (you usually have less for nearfield listening I believe) and cabinet size is ~ 66 Litres total (not compact by any means).
As stated above - you have to pick your poison / compromise with any speaker and a 3 way makes this more obvious.
It seems to me size (small) and bass (higher ok) are more important than efficiency. You only need 105dB max and most systems (even those 84dB and above) can be come close to that before mechanical excursion is an issue.
I would look at woofers with a smaller Vas to keep box size down.
The Satori WO24-P 4 ohm 9.5" woofer has very low bass / midbass distortion and can be asked to play up to 500Hz.
It models with an f3 of 49Hz in a sealed box of only 33 litres. You could make this work with your Shiva.
If you want to eliminate your Shiva for almost all music - you can go to maximally flat vented enclosure with an f3 of 27Hz with 69 Litres - but again - this is probably beyond your size goals. A 43 litre box can still get you 36Hz. so you can tune somewhere between sealed / maximally flat vented depending on your size limit vs. bass extension needs.
With the woofer sorted - you can go 5" midrange.
See the following distortion measurements for the 8 ohm version of the WO24-P. I'd expect the 4 ohm to be very similar:
Satori WO24P-8 | HiFiCompass
I do have the Peerless 5 in a ported box tuned to 51 hz. It was a stand along before the sub. I have it crossed over at 133 hz but a higher volumes I get distortion over 2% below 200 hz with them. They are poly cones and sound fine but I think I can do better.
You are correct that I won't be using near fields for mastering. This is why I need response to go quite low, also.
Right again, 105 db will be the loudest I need it to go but most listening will be 90-95 db.
I want to use the Shiva for HT and I realy don't need a 120 liter box in my studio. I was looking at the Seas L22RN4X/P and it seems I can get a F3 of 32 hz in a 33 liter box. Also was looking at the RSS210HO Dayton, F3 of 28 hz in a 26 liter box.
My idea was to relieve the midrange driver of excursion almost completely for cleaner sound in that region and let it crossover a little higher on the top end for a neo tweeter to keep it out of higher distortion levels. The Neo tweeter will give me closer CTC spacing. I even thought of going MTM. Still on the table.
I was looking at crossing over as low as 300 hz but 500hz if need be. I was actually looking to go smaller than a 5, and my thinking on this is, better transient response with a lighter cone, better performance up to higher frequencies and a smaller baffle for less diffraction. But what do I know...
You are correct that I won't be using near fields for mastering. This is why I need response to go quite low, also.
Right again, 105 db will be the loudest I need it to go but most listening will be 90-95 db.
I want to use the Shiva for HT and I realy don't need a 120 liter box in my studio. I was looking at the Seas L22RN4X/P and it seems I can get a F3 of 32 hz in a 33 liter box. Also was looking at the RSS210HO Dayton, F3 of 28 hz in a 26 liter box.
My idea was to relieve the midrange driver of excursion almost completely for cleaner sound in that region and let it crossover a little higher on the top end for a neo tweeter to keep it out of higher distortion levels. The Neo tweeter will give me closer CTC spacing. I even thought of going MTM. Still on the table.
I was looking at crossing over as low as 300 hz but 500hz if need be. I was actually looking to go smaller than a 5, and my thinking on this is, better transient response with a lighter cone, better performance up to higher frequencies and a smaller baffle for less diffraction. But what do I know...
I am extremely happy with the SB Satori MR16P-4. It can be crossed as low as 100Hz and as high as 7.5KHz if you don't care about beaming. Using it to 4KHz is a no brainer even though it is a 6+ inch driver; do not be afraid to experiment. I realize most people would never consider using this in such a wide-band fashion but I think it is one of the best sounding drivers out there regardless of price or design/type. Certainly worth serious consideration. (I am hearing things on recordings I never noticed before!)
It just so happens that I'm at this moment building the speaker you describe
First of all you want as flat a frequency response as possible that is also clean in the time domain. This means a metal mid woofer as they will stay linear the highest. You should not want to correct sharp dips in the driver with EQ for various reasons.
And it means handling baffle edge diffraction with large radius roundovers.
My solution is BlieSMa T34B-4 tweeter as it's simply the very best tweeter for a mastering monitor currently available. And the SB Acoustics SB17NBAC35-4 for mids as it's linear, very low distortion and has it's main cone breakup peak at about 10kHz which is well outside our most sensitive area if you look at equal loudness curve (should any distortion products still fall on this peak). And the Satori WO24P-4 for the bass, closed. And a yet to be determined subwoofer with MFB technology (yet to design/build the sub). Crossovers, LR4 @200Hz, LR6 @1600Hz (and likely sub XO LR4 @60-70Hz)
I can also highly suggest using Hypex Fusion amps. You will not find better for mastering they are completely clean, neutral and the control is second to none. Don't be fooled by the incredibly low price, the future has arrived for amps / DSP as far as I'm concerned.
First of all you want as flat a frequency response as possible that is also clean in the time domain. This means a metal mid woofer as they will stay linear the highest. You should not want to correct sharp dips in the driver with EQ for various reasons.
And it means handling baffle edge diffraction with large radius roundovers.
My solution is BlieSMa T34B-4 tweeter as it's simply the very best tweeter for a mastering monitor currently available. And the SB Acoustics SB17NBAC35-4 for mids as it's linear, very low distortion and has it's main cone breakup peak at about 10kHz which is well outside our most sensitive area if you look at equal loudness curve (should any distortion products still fall on this peak). And the Satori WO24P-4 for the bass, closed. And a yet to be determined subwoofer with MFB technology (yet to design/build the sub). Crossovers, LR4 @200Hz, LR6 @1600Hz (and likely sub XO LR4 @60-70Hz)
I can also highly suggest using Hypex Fusion amps. You will not find better for mastering they are completely clean, neutral and the control is second to none. Don't be fooled by the incredibly low price, the future has arrived for amps / DSP as far as I'm concerned.
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The are pretty good alright. Whether there is none better, not so sure. Benchmark AHB2 just might be better. Probably more costly for the type of use being discussed in this instance, however. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0321/7609/files/AHB2_Manual_-_Rev_G.pdf?6581480924542235084
It just so happens that I'm at this moment building the speaker you describe
First of all you want as flat a frequency response as possible that is also clean in the time domain. This means a metal mid woofer as they will stay linear the highest. You should not want to correct sharp dips in the driver with EQ for various reasons.
And it means handling baffle edge diffraction with large radius roundovers.
My solution is BlieSMa T34B-4 tweeter as it's simply the very best tweeter for a mastering monitor currently available. And the SB Acoustics SB17NBAC35-4 for mids as it's linear, very low distortion and has it's main cone breakup peak at about 10kHz which is well outside our most sensitive area if you look at equal loudness curve (should any distortion products still fall on this peak). And the Satori WO24P-4 for the bass, closed. And a yet to be determined subwoofer with MFB technology (yet to design/build the sub). Crossovers, LR4 @200Hz, LR6 @1600Hz (and likely sub XO LR4 @60-70Hz)
I can also highly suggest using Hypex Fusion amps. You will not find better for mastering they are completely clean, neutral and the control is second to none. Don't be fooled by the incredibly low price, the future has arrived for amps / DSP as far as I'm concerned.
Good info! I am using the SB Sataori MR16P-4 midrange and the SB23MFCL45-4 SUB along with an older Hypex plate amp (not the newer Fusion/DSP models). I was thinking of trying the WO24P on a newer design. Right now, I am using the Peerless PPB 6 1/2 in. to fill in the gap between the sub and the mid with a separate amp and active X/O. (I already had the Peerless which is the only reason for this). I am using the Fostex T90A super-tweeter. All in all, this is one of the best sounding combinations I have ever heard, especially for the money spent! Glad to see what others have tried and that people seem to really be quite happy with the SB products. I am well into my 60's which is the reason for the ST; I require substantial "boost" beginning at 8 KHz. I have never heard a Be tweeter (yet) but everyone says they are the best at what they do so that may also be on a future project!??
Yes indeed AHB2 might be better. As is the NC500 (going by specs, never heard them). But indeed much more expensive for tri-amping and the difference is small. That's how crazy good the NCxxxMP amps in the Fusion plates are
They're true NCore amps. For me the best I have personally heard. Fully in love and in my opinion really perfect for mastering.
If you're going to try the WO24P measure the actual T/S parameters! It seems to me people are putting them in too small boxes based on spec T/S parameters.
As for the BlieSMa tweeter. It's unreal how good it is. Fully transparent and you hear the smallest colourations in the audio you were never able to hear before. I'll leave my final verdict for when my speakers are finished but preliminary testing showed me things already that this is the first tweeter I am truly in awe with instead focussing on a fault. It is truly fully linear in the audio band, look at the off-axis pattern it is smooth also till 20kHz. And huge xmax it allows crossing very low with all the advantages this brings and still play at very high volume clean.
As you can tell I'm really excited with these new things
In my opinion it allows the design I described which I think is a step up from anything possible before.- Status
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