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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

To Heil AMT or not to Heil at 0, that is the question?
To Heil AMT or not to Heil at 0, that is the question?
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:05 PM   #21
kec is offline kec  United States
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I received my AMT's 1/3. Man, these are everything I was hoping for. I haven't taken any measurements yet, but I will. I paired these my Eminence BP102 10" woofers using miniDSP crossed @ 800Hz.

Of course the $140 sale is over now, but ESS lowered their regular prices now. The BIG one is $170, $160 for the II and $150 for the III. Still, a pretty good deal.

HEIL AMT – ESS Speakers USA
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:08 PM   #22
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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Hi Kec
So your saying that the small Amt lll sounds just as good ?
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:41 PM   #23
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill poster View Post
Yeah I'm curious about that half height one too

Seriously I'd be wondering why the manufacturer is selling off everything at one 3rd price.. pay with bank card etc to protect yourself
Because Parts Express?

The AMT patent expired a few years ago. That's why you see Parts Express selling AMTs and Legacy using them in their loudspeakers.

The AMTs from ESS predate the patent's expiration. So either they own the patent or they pay a licensing fee.
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:55 PM   #24
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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OK, just to muddy the waters further:

EP2158789B1 - Diaphragm arrangement for an air motion transformer (amt), and sound converter comprising such a diaphragm arrangement
- Google Patents


Here is the patent. It was granted in 2010, which would seem to indicate that you'd need a license to sell these until 2020 at least. PE has been selling AMTs for a few years. No idea if they have a license.

ESS Factory Air Motion Transformer, AMT Tweeter, AMT-HEIL

Here's a link to the ESS AMT, from seven years ago, when it sold for $340 each

Best dipole tweeter?

Some discussion from seven years ago. Since the patent was "in force" during that time frame, possibly Aurum Cantus had a license?

Manufacturing companies love to find ways around patents, so who knows? For instance, there were something like four or five different split-gap technologies being used about ten years ago. That was during a timeframe when Adire, Creative Sound, and Ascendant were selling woofers licensed from Adire, while TC Sounds had a competing solution. Pioneer and Orion briefly sold woofers with split gap, but that didn't last long.

A primer into XBL2, LMT, and Split Coil Subwoofer design | Audioholics Home Theater Forums
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:57 PM   #25
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Hi Kec
So your saying that the small Amt lll sounds just as good ?
Keep in mind that the larger ribbons will generally have greater power handling, but the vertical directivity gets pretty ridiculous. A three inch tall ribbon has zero degrees of vertical beamwidth above 4500hz. IMHO, one of the reasons that people like the sound of ribbons is that the extremely narrow directivity can be a feature or a defect, depending on how you implement them.
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:08 PM   #26
puppet is offline puppet  United States
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I own a pair of the original '70's heil with newer diaphragms. I've paired mine to a FaitalPro 15pr400 driver mounted in a 180 liter sealed enclosure. Heils set on top. XO is @1240hz LR4, not much drama. Sounds great.

This is an active system so tweaking isn't a big deal. My opinion however is that when you begin trying to flatten the response of the heil the airiness of the overall sounds starts to diminish. A trade off between "eye candy" and overall sound quality. I've since decided to let it be. I'm an older user so perhaps some of these higher frequency anomalies don't offend me as much as the missing "sparkle" would/does. YMMV
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:14 PM   #27
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Originally Posted by puppet View Post
My opinion however is that when you begin trying to flatten the response of the heil the airiness of the overall sounds starts to diminish. A trade off between "eye candy" and overall sound quality. I've since decided to let it be. I'm an older user so perhaps some of these higher frequency anomalies don't offend me as much as the missing "sparkle" would/does. YMMV
This is exactly what I describe in the previous post: when you have a loudspeaker with rapidly changing directivity, getting it to sound "right" can be tricky because of pattern flip.

I do a lot of work with car audio horns, and this is the single biggest challenge with them, IMHO. You can equalize them flat and they won't necessarily sound right, because of pattern flip and power response.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:32 PM   #28
kec is offline kec  United States
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Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Hi Kec
So your saying that the small Amt lll sounds just as good ?
Don't know, I bought the BIG one
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Old 12th January 2019, 01:01 AM   #29
DaveFred is offline DaveFred  Canada
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ESS Heil AMT, yet more questions...

I am used to seeing a tweeter on a baffle, even in an open baffle design.

Normally tweeters in free air are a bad idea.

Why isn't diffraction a big issue with this design?

Is the Great Heil ever used in a monopole fashion on a baffle?

Or is monopole a waste of this gem?
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Old 12th January 2019, 02:01 AM   #30
puppet is offline puppet  United States
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ESS had a bookshelf speaker with the heil mounted on baffle. I've never heard it.
This tweeter is more like a horn.
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