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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf
Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf
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Old 7th December 2018, 04:03 AM   #1
Anchan is offline Anchan  United States
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Default Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf

Hello,
I've built a few amplifiers from these pages, but this is my first speaker build!
I'm planning on building the Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf:
Bookshelf-3WC

I work in fabrication, so I had a friend I work with draft it for me. The drawings are too large to attach here, so here is a link to them:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AoKqL-JHTdcAhJo7LkCvKj_OKBBrLw

(diyaudio says file size cannot exceed 976.6 KB. If anyone can tell me how to post a 1.5MB file let me know, and I'll direct post it here. And if my link ever expires PM me for the files.)

I have a friend with a CNC, so I'm going to take advantage of that too!

I'll use this thread to document my progress. Progress might be slow, but stay tuned!

Last edited by Anchan; 7th December 2018 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 7th December 2018, 12:43 PM   #2
andy19191 is offline andy19191  Europe
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Your link doesn't work because it requires signing in to something.

Only skimmed the article but the aperiodic loading is interesting and might suit the wall loading. Do you intend to take detailed measurements after construction?

The configuration looks good to me for use in real homes and is similar to the speakers I am supposed to building for the new house when more pressing projects have been addressed. Not sure about the Allison link since the design doesn't follow his approach nor would it need to with a few more books to create a soffit arrangement which would be even better.

Does he say what the felt is for? It looks too flimsy to damp the panels and is an inefficient location for absorbing the lower frequencies because the particle velocity is zero at the wall for the normal modes. Not saying it is insufficient to do the job just curious about the reasoning.

Good luck with build and it will be interesting to see how you get on with the configuration.
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Old 7th December 2018, 03:46 PM   #3
Anchan is offline Anchan  United States
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Hmm, not sure why the link doesn't work. I tested from a random unsigned-in computer and it seems to work. If anyone needs the files, pm me and I'll email them to you. They are very detailed, and any cabinet shop should be able to build from them. The construction is rather simple, but it will save someone from any interpretive work from Troel's website. If anyone wants a flat pack, and is local-ish. I might be able to arrange as well. PM me for that too.

I have two older Rel Strata III subs, so with a mini dsp that I have I plan to make a quasi 4-way, using the subs below where these speakers roll off.

I will take some unscientific measurements in my living space with REW once I get them set up. I'm in the midst of a move, so the measurements will come a little later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy19191 View Post
Your link doesn't work because it requires signing in to something.

>>>
Do you intend to take detailed measurements after construction?
<<<

Last edited by Anchan; 7th December 2018 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 8th December 2018, 11:06 AM   #4
andy19191 is offline andy19191  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchan View Post
Hmm, not sure why the link doesn't work.
Curiously I see your files when at my desktop but in the coffee shop with an Android tablet I cannot get past a page requiring me to join some Microsoft thing I don't want to join. I guess this is the price of using free stuff (at least I hope you are not paying for this non-service).
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Old 10th December 2018, 05:02 PM   #5
Anchan is offline Anchan  United States
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You're welcome for the free construction drawings

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy19191 View Post
Curiously I see your files when at my desktop but in the coffee shop with an Android tablet I cannot get past a page requiring me to join some Microsoft thing I don't want to join. I guess this is the price of using free stuff (at least I hope you are not paying for this non-service).
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Old 10th December 2018, 05:52 PM   #6
The Space Egg Corp is online now The Space Egg Corp  England
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Exclamation S P L U T T E R ! . . . 15 crossover components ! ?

.

WOW !

FIFTEEN crossover components in a bookshelf speaker.


B&W manage with 4 components in their 2-way DM602s ...

... and they sound AWESOME !


I'd stick to a 2-way & keep all the extra resistors, inductors & capacitors to an absolute MINIMUM.

Less is more ?

Nar ... MORE is better ... right ?


Si.

t.S.E.c

.
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Old 10th December 2018, 06:17 PM   #7
The Space Egg Corp is online now The Space Egg Corp  England
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Wink Less Gold Lettered Capacitors & BIGGER Magnets ?

.

I think I must be missing the point ?


Why spend a million bucks on 'needless' ? expensive crossover components ...

... & end up with an 8" driver, which looks as though it has a pretty darn tiny magnet.


Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf-22w-8534g00-jpg


I also don't exactly get WHY one would want to try & merge the performance of these 3 drivers together ?


Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf-bmt-1200-png


It kinda looks like you end up with a really weird spaghetti junction of overlapping frequencies.


Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf-bmt-spl_b_1200-png


That ^^ looks CRAZY to my simple minimalist mind !

& so the SHARPLY defined 2-Way was invented.

This tape will self destruct in 5 seconds . . . . .


Si.

t.S.E.c

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 22W-8534G00-small.jpg (39.1 KB, 746 views)
File Type: png BMT-1200.png (143.2 KB, 749 views)
File Type: png BMT-spl_B_1200.png (150.8 KB, 396 views)
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Old 10th December 2018, 06:27 PM   #8
The Space Egg Corp is online now The Space Egg Corp  England
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Talking I'd go for external crossovers ... For the BLING factor !

.

BLING !


Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf-bookshelf-xover-2-jpg


WOW !


Troels Three Way Classic Bookshelf-bookshelf-1_website_novalues-png


That's a lot of resistors ... were these drivers really meant to live in harmony ?


Si.

t.S.E.c

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bookshelf-xover-2.jpg (402.8 KB, 381 views)
File Type: png Bookshelf-1_website_novalues.png (37.0 KB, 386 views)
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Old 10th December 2018, 08:36 PM   #9
wolf_teeth is offline wolf_teeth  United States
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I don't see what your problem is.

-15 parts in a 3-way is actually quite decent. This is because you have a 3rd driver that requires 2 xover filters in addition to the other 2 with theirs. On the principle of a 2-way with 4 parts, means the 3-way would have about 12 in theory.

-Fewer parts or more parts than average does not mean the sound will be better or worse. Resistors are not bad, and they are inexpensive. "Minimalism with respect to necessity", which means you should have what is required, but as simply as needed to get there.

-Tiny magnets? That is your basis? Some of the best bass was from tiny magnet acoustic suspension designs where the enclosure did the majority of the suspension damping. That is an 8" driver, and I would not call that a tiny magnet. It is enough Bl apparently to do the job, and SS does know what they are doing.

- Why do you pick the drivers you want to use? Because you do. Let's not belittle someone's project because you don't see the merit here. Most drivers' overlaid unfiltered responses will look like that, and the last graphic in post #7 actually looks really good. These are the filtered responses and the sum. I think you self-destructed for no particularly good reason.

- Yes, the xovers do have a bit of bling. Troels sees merit in using more expensive xover parts, as well as being a kit designer for Jantzen-Audio. They supply him the parts, and his builds are at least partially paid for by Jantzen-Audio due to their business relationship. However, 5 resistors in a network does not mean it is a fool's errand. My best floor-standing 2-way has 9 resistors in the network, 5 of which are in the tweeter's circuit, and you wouldn't know it listening to them.

Later,
Wolf
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Old 10th December 2018, 08:44 PM   #10
sjm1580 is offline sjm1580  United States
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Bueno!
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