Why didn't you use a stepped baffle for time alignment similar to Troels ScanSpeak-3W-Discovery cabinet? Or a slanted baffle for time alignment similar to Kairos? Do you tilt your FAST cabinet to improve time alignment at the listener?
Simply placing the midtweeter underneath the woofer provided the circa 3in delay needed. A 3in step would cause a lot of diffraction and reflection problems. Surprisingly, the upside down configuration works well from a variety of listening positions as long as the ear is at same or above the axis of woofer.
Currently using Statement Monitors as the LF-RF with the TV’s 5.1 system. Like most 3-ways they need to be out in the room which drives the WAF into minus territory. I like these for the 8 inch woofer and the placement options. Also interesting to consider using a third one for a center channel. But I always choke on having to buy those silly Jentzen caps just to get the crossover specs. Look forward to your build to push me over the edge.
Anchan,
It looks like you want a speaker that can go right up against the wall. So if you want to pull these out from the wall they will be thin sounding. It looks like there is only a 2-3 db gain above the midrange going from full space to half space. I just wanted to make sure your aware of the speaker limitations. Also, I want to say that you don't have to exactly copy using uber expensive capacitors. I'm using the 400 volt Audyns Q4 that cost peanuts compare to 600-800 volt jantzens. Most of the sound degradation probably comes from using poor resistors in the signal path. Consider using top notch resistors like mills or other military grade stuff with high ratings before using very very expensive caps. Don't change the inductor size unless you know what your doing as this can really change things up. keep the same size or gauge(unless it's very very close to the resistence measurement).
It looks like you want a speaker that can go right up against the wall. So if you want to pull these out from the wall they will be thin sounding. It looks like there is only a 2-3 db gain above the midrange going from full space to half space. I just wanted to make sure your aware of the speaker limitations. Also, I want to say that you don't have to exactly copy using uber expensive capacitors. I'm using the 400 volt Audyns Q4 that cost peanuts compare to 600-800 volt jantzens. Most of the sound degradation probably comes from using poor resistors in the signal path. Consider using top notch resistors like mills or other military grade stuff with high ratings before using very very expensive caps. Don't change the inductor size unless you know what your doing as this can really change things up. keep the same size or gauge(unless it's very very close to the resistence measurement).
If you have a tweeter that can run well down to 1 khz, then the two way becomes a rival again. BUT I suppose that tweeter isnt exactly gona be cheap.
My fave at the moment is a cheap 10" aluminum cone in a BIG rigid well damped box mated to a small ribbon crossed at 1 khz. Polars are great,distortion is low, bass sounds real, mids are convincing,treble the same. Breakup is avoided in woofer with simple 2nd order crossover. IMO easily competes or beats any 3 way even close to same overall price, AND it was almost too easy to get right from a crossover standpoint.
probably could get another 3 db of head room if went 3 way but this arraignment was an order of magnitude more easy to get magic out of.
+1 I like to use an 8in aluminum woofer in a sealed box crossed at 900Hz to a ScanSpeak 10F - first order transient perfect XO. Superb sound - about same XO frequency as yours. A simple notch filter takes care of cone breakup at 7kHz. But the woofer provides much of the midrange and nice bass all so smoothly.
I am curious what small ribbon can be crossed at 1kHz.
why not take that cone the 10 f to 500 hz? Baffle reasons? curious.
The ribbon is my own design
Boxes!
I finally got the boxes made! But unfortunately, due to a recent move I no longer have space or these speakers. Also due to the COVID situation, I need to free up some funds.
So.... I will be putting the whole kit up on swap meet in the next few days. I have all the drivers, crossover parts etc. It pains me, but alas, such is life with DIY.
I finally got the boxes made! But unfortunately, due to a recent move I no longer have space or these speakers. Also due to the COVID situation, I need to free up some funds.
So.... I will be putting the whole kit up on swap meet in the next few days. I have all the drivers, crossover parts etc. It pains me, but alas, such is life with DIY.
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FINALLY Finished
So, I allocated some space in the basement, and decided to keep these speakers. I FINALLY put them together. Can we give awards for slowest DIY'ers?
I have to say they sound really really good. I had gone the small two-way speaker + subwoofer route for the last few years, so I am not used to hearing music straight out of an 8" woofer, in a 3-way configuration no less, and let me tell you it sounds full, and nice.
Highs and mids also sound great. I don't have the time and inclination to measure them right now, so will just enjoy till I get the bug. Building speakers is a major pain in the butt, so glad these paid off.
So, I allocated some space in the basement, and decided to keep these speakers. I FINALLY put them together. Can we give awards for slowest DIY'ers?
I have to say they sound really really good. I had gone the small two-way speaker + subwoofer route for the last few years, so I am not used to hearing music straight out of an 8" woofer, in a 3-way configuration no less, and let me tell you it sounds full, and nice.
Highs and mids also sound great. I don't have the time and inclination to measure them right now, so will just enjoy till I get the bug. Building speakers is a major pain in the butt, so glad these paid off.
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Just capping off this quiet little thread. Made some space in a second bedroom- this setup is probably the best I ever had. Salas 6V6 preamp going into a low gain modified Hypex 120w amp, Troels BS 3WC. Then Eq’d just slightly (knocked the room mode peaks down with EQ APO), and an old REL strata iii picks up for just that bottom octave.
Wow, a long journey but this sounds seriously ******* amazing. IMO I’m not sure how we used to do without Eq’ing down below 200hz. Really finishes it off.
Some before and after REW measurements attached from the listening position. Purple is straight, brown is light EQ below 100hz, with the REL added in. Not much I can do about the suckout at 250. Some of the discrepancies between the two was just because I took a bunch of measurements from slightly different locations for each run and averaged.
Anyway, no more measurements and fiddling. Pretty much dialed in.
Wow, a long journey but this sounds seriously ******* amazing. IMO I’m not sure how we used to do without Eq’ing down below 200hz. Really finishes it off.
Some before and after REW measurements attached from the listening position. Purple is straight, brown is light EQ below 100hz, with the REL added in. Not much I can do about the suckout at 250. Some of the discrepancies between the two was just because I took a bunch of measurements from slightly different locations for each run and averaged.
Anyway, no more measurements and fiddling. Pretty much dialed in.
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Thank you brother. Indeed it’s been a long 3 years. I think it provided just right amount of distraction - providing some respite during this never ending effing pandemic situation.
Hi @Snowflake, sorry for the delayed response. I've taken a little break.
Yes, I'm listening to these speakers right now, and I still like them very much, after 2 years.
What I like about them is that the bass is extremely satisfying. It doesn't get into the 20's or 30Hz's, but what is there is very full and impactful. Something about having that 50- 100Hz coming out of an 8" rather than a 6" as in a typical 2-way.
I can only describe it as a very satisfying and full sound. The mids feel very natural. The highs also are very nice, but not overdone.
I don't have them ideally setup. I have them set closer to each other than I would normally have them as a result of the room they are placed. As a result, I don't find them as holographic as other speakers I've had. But I'm not sure if that's the setup or the speakers themselves. I would imagine directivity is not the most uniform due to lack of any waveguide.
So, are they perfect? No not all. But they sound very full, very natural, and I am really enjoying them, even after 2 years. They're pretty easy to drive too. They are also relatively compact, which is a plus for me. I know other's may not care about that. All in all, I recommend trying them.
Yes, I'm listening to these speakers right now, and I still like them very much, after 2 years.
What I like about them is that the bass is extremely satisfying. It doesn't get into the 20's or 30Hz's, but what is there is very full and impactful. Something about having that 50- 100Hz coming out of an 8" rather than a 6" as in a typical 2-way.
I can only describe it as a very satisfying and full sound. The mids feel very natural. The highs also are very nice, but not overdone.
I don't have them ideally setup. I have them set closer to each other than I would normally have them as a result of the room they are placed. As a result, I don't find them as holographic as other speakers I've had. But I'm not sure if that's the setup or the speakers themselves. I would imagine directivity is not the most uniform due to lack of any waveguide.
So, are they perfect? No not all. But they sound very full, very natural, and I am really enjoying them, even after 2 years. They're pretty easy to drive too. They are also relatively compact, which is a plus for me. I know other's may not care about that. All in all, I recommend trying them.
Many thousands of people all over the earth agree: Troels Gravesen designs awesome speakers, of many types, that please our ears - especially for the price. The suggestion that capacitor lettering and magnet size are relevant here is....interesting.
My ears are VERY happy with the Bookshelf 3WCs, and the choice to direct my resources to a talented designer with a public/proven track record.
My ears are VERY happy with the Bookshelf 3WCs, and the choice to direct my resources to a talented designer with a public/proven track record.
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