Im considering a new build, and im having issues with crossing woofers. I want to make a build with woofers only playing 20HZ-say 500HZ and then have a Mid take over and hand off to a tweeter.
The issue im having is CAPS--to get the many woofers i have tried to cross there even actual subs requires caps 50uf+ which would wreck my budget. Is the issue im having im not going big enough on woofer size? Ive modeled a lot of 8" and 10" woofers from Dayton:.
Currently modeling
Dual Dayton SD215-A
The issue im having is CAPS--to get the many woofers i have tried to cross there even actual subs requires caps 50uf+ which would wreck my budget. Is the issue im having im not going big enough on woofer size? Ive modeled a lot of 8" and 10" woofers from Dayton:.
Currently modeling
Dual Dayton SD215-A
You might want to consider an active solution, depending on what amplifiers you have available or can afford this may be a better performing and potentially cheaper solution. You could consider inexpensive class D amps for the 20Hz - 500Hz spectrum and use either full active or single (existing?) amp with passive crossovers between midrange and tweeters.
I'm running a fully active system which wasn't cheap to implement, but was the logical next step for me.
I'm running a fully active system which wasn't cheap to implement, but was the logical next step for me.
Uhm, very strange answer.
I mean, I can't find CAPS
at a reasonable price !?! I mean, 47 uF/100 VL costs about 1 $ -obviously a bipolar electrolytic type, not a film type.
On the other side, instead of making simple things, you would propose more amplifiers, crossovers, even digital ! Gosh ! What the future will bring to us ? Software for "room correction" and so on !?!
No need to be obnoxious..
I was wondering what sort of set up that he was talking about that costs so much money to implement. I suspect he is not talking about using the inexpensive parts you referenced.
As for your other comments, yes exactly what I have including horns, hybrid amps, DSP, etc..
To the OP, a crossover could be as simple as a single inductor and capacitor so I am not sure what is so expensive about that? It starts to get expensive if you go beyond 3rd order or so.
Do you have really high power handling requirements or are you looking at using really expensive components which both pico and I would agree are not necessary?
I was wondering what sort of set up that he was talking about that costs so much money to implement. I suspect he is not talking about using the inexpensive parts you referenced.
As for your other comments, yes exactly what I have including horns, hybrid amps, DSP, etc..
To the OP, a crossover could be as simple as a single inductor and capacitor so I am not sure what is so expensive about that? It starts to get expensive if you go beyond 3rd order or so.
Do you have really high power handling requirements or are you looking at using really expensive components which both pico and I would agree are not necessary?
I have a further suggestion, please tell us exactly what you are trying to accomplish and how. We can help you look for alternatives that might fit your budget better.
On the face of a it a passive 2 or 3 way crossover shouldn't be that expensive particularly as you experiment to figure out what works.
What sort of woofer impedance are we talking that you need 50uF to cross at 500Hz? (4 ohms?)
For a simple 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley LPF at 500Hz you need 1.8mH series inductance and 56uF shunt capacitance to achieve -6dB/90° at the crossover point. The 56uF capacitor does not have to be particularly special and if that concerns you it can be upgraded later. (4 ohm woofer is assumed)
On the face of a it a passive 2 or 3 way crossover shouldn't be that expensive particularly as you experiment to figure out what works.
What sort of woofer impedance are we talking that you need 50uF to cross at 500Hz? (4 ohms?)
For a simple 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley LPF at 500Hz you need 1.8mH series inductance and 56uF shunt capacitance to achieve -6dB/90° at the crossover point. The 56uF capacitor does not have to be particularly special and if that concerns you it can be upgraded later. (4 ohm woofer is assumed)
I know what you mean. I've got an 80uF cap in series for my mid crossing at ~ 220Hz.
Some options:
1. Buy a cheaper (i.e. bennic) non-polar electrolytic cap for now - only a few bucks and by-pass with a more expensive cap. The bypass approach is seen by some to allow a higher quality, smaller value cap to better pass the frequencies we are more sensitive too. I don't have hard evidence this is audible. An example here if you need ~ 56uF, would be to buy a cheaper 46uF bennic cap then wire in parallel a 10uF higher quality cap (to get 56uF total)
2. Go active. By using a DSP (eg. dayton) you don't have to build up a stock of passive components and experience lengthy re-order cycles. In hindsight, I should have probably gone active as it would have been cheaper than ordering a whole bunch of parts to experiment
Some options:
1. Buy a cheaper (i.e. bennic) non-polar electrolytic cap for now - only a few bucks and by-pass with a more expensive cap. The bypass approach is seen by some to allow a higher quality, smaller value cap to better pass the frequencies we are more sensitive too. I don't have hard evidence this is audible. An example here if you need ~ 56uF, would be to buy a cheaper 46uF bennic cap then wire in parallel a 10uF higher quality cap (to get 56uF total)
2. Go active. By using a DSP (eg. dayton) you don't have to build up a stock of passive components and experience lengthy re-order cycles. In hindsight, I should have probably gone active as it would have been cheaper than ordering a whole bunch of parts to experiment
Here's my tuppence worth, which simply reinforces much of what has already been said.
Your low pass, passive filter is going to require large value capacitors - there's no way around this (apart from going active!).
Don't be put off using affordable electrolytic capacitors in woofer crossovers.
The use of electrolytic capacitors in woofer crossovers is less critical than in mid/high crossovers, as the acoustic distortion of the woofer itself when reproducing low frequencies far outweighs any distortion introduced by an electrolytic capacitor.
Good quality NP electrolytics are available at a fraction of the cost of equivalent polypropylene capacitors.
https://www.wilmslowaudio.co.uk/mundorf-electrolytic-ecap-capacitors-130-c.asp
Your low pass, passive filter is going to require large value capacitors - there's no way around this (apart from going active!).
Don't be put off using affordable electrolytic capacitors in woofer crossovers.
The use of electrolytic capacitors in woofer crossovers is less critical than in mid/high crossovers, as the acoustic distortion of the woofer itself when reproducing low frequencies far outweighs any distortion introduced by an electrolytic capacitor.
Good quality NP electrolytics are available at a fraction of the cost of equivalent polypropylene capacitors.
https://www.wilmslowaudio.co.uk/mundorf-electrolytic-ecap-capacitors-130-c.asp
That's another reason a lot of people stick with a 2 way. The lower in frequency you go - the bigger the inductor and capacitor values required (the higher the impedance the larger the capacitors needed. the lower the impedance, the larger the inductors needed).
When you go 3 way - you're not only dealing with larger values - but you are effectively building another speaker - as you often end up applying notches or shaping circuits. For example - you might need a large inductor in parallel with your midrange to shape the high pass when crossing to the woofer.
How are you designing your crossover? On-line calculator, simulation of FRD/ZMA data or actual measurements?
When you go 3 way - you're not only dealing with larger values - but you are effectively building another speaker - as you often end up applying notches or shaping circuits. For example - you might need a large inductor in parallel with your midrange to shape the high pass when crossing to the woofer.
How are you designing your crossover? On-line calculator, simulation of FRD/ZMA data or actual measurements?
What im trying to accomplish is Woofer for 20/30HZ-to around 500HZ handed off to a Mid which hands off to tweeter. 3-way design that i can use for theater and music without having Subs on all the time. I have a good build now which is my first, But not exactly what i wanted and seems to be missing something to my ear. Ill check out the DSP from Dayton- From what ive seen(modeled) the price of the caps for 1 or 2 of the speakers for the woofers would be same as a Dayton Active DSP.
Im building 5 Full-Range speakers- sourcing parts from Parts-Express.
Wow @Galu Wish they were that cheap here lol $15 for one 50uf cap and say i only need one per speaker, still $75 for one item lol
Im building 5 Full-Range speakers- sourcing parts from Parts-Express.
Wow @Galu Wish they were that cheap here lol $15 for one 50uf cap and say i only need one per speaker, still $75 for one item lol
I think there is some confusion here!
The metalized polypropylenes from Parts Express are $15, but the NP electrolytics are only around $1.
https://www.parts-express.com/50uf-100v-electrolytic-non-polarized-crossover-capacitor--027-354
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