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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
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Old 10th November 2018, 07:40 PM   #71
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Okay, peace fellas...

To John: I do believe that lateral reflections in the "second room" are absolutely essential (this is the basics of the 90 degree horizontal coverage comments), even though those reflections are not in the recordings. I want to be clear about that. Without those reflections, our multichannel arrays would fall apart in terms of the immersive listening experience, and stereo recordings would suffer immeasurably from "the fundamental flaw of stereo" as Toole has tagged it. This is the interaural perceived dip in response from 1.8 to 2.2 kHz that's a function of the stereo human hearing system. Those lateral reflections "fill in the hole" at that "BBC dip" band.

I also can't stand headphones, so we're on the same page there. I've had a lot of trouble talking to people that advocate that "the conditions of hi-fi are best when wearing exceptionally good headphones". I try to avoid those conversations--and those people when they turn to that discussion. I usually then mention the "6 foot-wide headphones" that Bob Carver mentioned that he was testing years ago, trying to deal with eardrum bounce issues--then I wait for a response from the headphone enthusiasts. Usually, there is no response.

To Mark: I apologize as I was contemplating more sinister intent, so pardon my response. The music of my youth was the 1970s, not the 1990s-2000s. I really feel bad for those that grew up in that era, such as my children. I'm continually surprised by them in that they have themselves voluntarily rejected most of the music of that era in favor of the old stuff that I've listened to. I can tell you that I wouldn't have listened for very long to the music of my parents as a substitute for the music of my youth.

However, it's now pretty well documented what started in earnest in 1991 to stereo music tracks--and it's pretty horrible from the perspective of the preceding decades of music--from the standpoint of the how the record companies turned the music into "corned beef hash". I wish that I could do something to resurrect that music's fidelity and dynamic range to return it to something closer to an acoustic music aesthetic, but that's basically impossible due to the magnitude of the damage done to the recordings. I'm really sorry for the Millennials and late Gen-Xers. The default production quality of their music is awful, I've found.

Okay...I do try to pay attention to the comments made on this forum by its participants to try to translate what they are saying into my environment. Sometimes I get pretty frustrated trying to guess what kind of environment they have--and what kind of music that they're using when they make their comments. I once saw a guy on another forum flatly state that all his music sounded a lot better when he converted it to low bit rate, highly compressed MP3 files. I felt bad for him, but I could say nothing without further damaging the already strained atmosphere from the older guys on the forum.

Chris

Last edited by Cask05; 10th November 2018 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 10th November 2018, 09:23 PM   #72
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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^Chris, that was just like my story! But now sometimes I feel like an old elephant looking for the dark cave...

Juha
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Old 11th November 2018, 08:24 PM   #73
Sheldon is offline Sheldon  United States
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Been following this thread with interest. My system at present is original Lambda Unity Horns, on top of 15" Altec 416-8b's in a sealed box. It's supported on the low end with three subs. It's multi-amped with a DEQX. The mid bass are run with no high pass and the subs integrated via a Mini-DSP, ala Geddes multi-sub approach.

It shines regarding tonality and dynamics. And it goes very loud while remaining clean. The soundstage is wide and stable. But, especially at moderate to low volumes, the soundstage on most recordings doesn't have much apparent depth ("they are here", as in right here).

I'm considering running the main speakers as a two-way similar to the Geddes Summa. I'd tried it briefly in the past, without the mid-ranges, and it sounded pretty good. That way I have an extra channel on the DEQX to play with some "ambience" speakers. The DEQX makes it easy to dial in a wide range of delay, volume, and frequency settings. I have some small desktop speakers to play with. If I decide to keep it that way, a couple of small sealed boxes with the little 2 1/2" SB speakers might be interesting to try.

Sheldon
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Old 13th November 2018, 02:30 PM   #74
mark100 is online now mark100  United States
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@Chris, thanks! No apology needed at all, my friend.

@Sheldon, I have the same problem as you at low listening levels with my high power / high sensitivity rig. Just lacks life and presence.

You've probably already done this, but in case you haven't, it's helped my low level issue a lot. Plain ole simple gain staging.....

I drop amp gain down as low as it will go, and try to make sure everything upstream is running as high as possible.
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Old 14th November 2018, 02:03 PM   #75
papasteack is offline papasteack  France
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Hi,
As it as been talk here, I'm curious about the idea of "ambient" tweeter, rear fire...etc.
Do you have some links to point me to look at where this kind of stuff is discussed ? Searching for examples, theory, time alignement, volume talks...
Thanks,
Damien
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Old 14th November 2018, 04:37 PM   #76
mlee is offline mlee  Canada
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Thanks for this comparison! Always curious to hear the preferences of other listeners.
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Old 14th November 2018, 06:22 PM   #77
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Google gives many hits at diyaudio.com
Adding a rear-firing tweeter
Adding a rear Ambience tweeter
Rear tweeter - Pros and Cons

And most lately by Bill Waslo Ambience tweeters using small BMR drivers

I have used it too and was quite happy! I had the rear tweeter pointing 45¤ up. Usually xo is so high and distance between radiators so long, that polarity doesn't mean a thing. With careful measurements there are differencies with interference hickups, but you can't hear them. Spl adjustment would be nice and why not highpass too. Easy to test with dsp boxes!

My measurements and impressions start from here Aino gradient - a collaborative speaker project
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Old 14th November 2018, 09:17 PM   #78
papasteack is offline papasteack  France
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I've googled too and found the 3 first links before deciding to ask as it wasn't enough, and i'm happy to have done so.
I have seen both your and Bill project, but missed those part in your project and this specific thread from Bill. Lot of stuff to think about, to make my own ideas. Exactly what i was searching. Really interesting, thanks !
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