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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
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Old 8th November 2018, 09:14 AM   #51
4real is online now 4real  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by bushmeister View Post
Regarding the bass of both systems- they are both really excellent - the synergys dig really deep with their 4x 8" woofers, whilst the 4 way system has a frankly ridiculous set of sub-woofers with massive displacement that is overkill for nearly everything.
Would be interesting to see what happens if you redo the rest with a 100hz highpass for both systems.

Also for more HF detail, forgetting about the horn for a moment: what about the SB65 vs real tweeter? Looking at the distortion plot's they should both be excellent, and even the waterfall plot of the SB is extremely clean almost up to 20K.
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Old 8th November 2018, 09:46 AM   #52
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
I was referring to acoustic phase and thus each "way" driver's polarity...
So was I. I have stopped using Linkwitz-Riley crossover filters as well as the related Butterworth filters because of their low-pass phase growth characteristics, in favor of low-order Bessel filters--especially with MEHs, which sum their response internally much better and produce consistent polars in the crossover band(s). Overall phase response (via acoustic measurement) with respect to minimum phase is much better, and it seems that the human hearing system likes the results of lower excess phase growth.

Trying to minimize the interference bandwidth I've found is usually not a good trade if the excess phase goes off the deep end.

Chris

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Old 8th November 2018, 09:58 AM   #53
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Originally Posted by bushmeister View Post
...Plus my listening room is pretty well designed with lots of absorption. The treble for both systems didn't require much change at all, it was mainly the midbass and bass which was different.
You may not be aware that there is a thread in the new "Room Acoustics and Mods" section that is gathering individual listening room reverberation time plots so that some understanding of the typical (and non-typical) decay times in-room can be made more apparent, instead of everyone having to do their own guessing what their room is doing relative to others on the forum: RT60 and your listening room

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Old 8th November 2018, 10:11 AM   #54
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
...But if C has LR2 and mains LR4, center tweeter has "wrong" polarity and sound will be a mess, never right no matter what polarity or delay settings!

I have read about many HT systems that don't follow this rule, typically mains are 3-ways and center 2-way. Mission impossible, unless you use rePhase or some other FIR-eq system!
I agree with your observation that many people do not pay close enough attention to the triplet of loudspeakers across the front of a multichannel loudspeaker array and their relative phase characteristics.
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Old 8th November 2018, 10:16 AM   #55
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
We should not lose track of the fact the the Synergies use a £23 driver from 500Hz up. Provided one views labour as free on DIY projects that's an awful lot of performance for not much money. By comparison the volt midrange is nearly £600 list. I'm still, on consideration mightily impressed by what Bush and X did on this
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Old 8th November 2018, 02:33 PM   #56
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anybody want to buy my Synergies
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
We should not lose track of the fact the the Synergies use a £23 driver from 500Hz up. Provided one views labour as free on DIY projects that's an awful lot of performance for not much money. By comparison the volt midrange is nearly £600 list. I'm still, on consideration mightily impressed by what Bush and X did on this
Absolutely! I hope people don't think the synergies sound poor. As I have said, they are better than my other older speakers I have built and owned over the years (many!) And it was only in side by side instantaneous switching that the differences were noticeable.

Again i should underline these impressions were subjective and personal, others mileage may vary!

It has underlined to me how different designs sound very different even with similar measurements. It make me want to build line array and open baffle speakers too then I could have even more interesting listening sessions!
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Old 8th November 2018, 06:31 PM   #58
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Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
"It has underlined to me how different designs sound very different even with similar measurements."
Interesting thing about the ambient driver thing -- if the system is measured in the "normal" way (quasi-anechoic, with windowing terminating the impulse response somewhere before 10msec) the frequency response measurement is for all practical purposes identical with or without the ambient driver playing. Yet even my HF hearing impaired wife can hear an unquestionable difference (maybe even "from the kitchen"!)
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Old 8th November 2018, 06:50 PM   #59
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Interesting thing about the ambient driver thing.......

........the frequency response measurement is for all practical purposes identical with or without the ambient driver playing. Yet even my HF hearing impaired wife can hear an unquestionable difference (maybe even "from the kitchen"!)
Bang on!
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Old 9th November 2018, 01:28 PM   #60
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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To see rear tweeter's effect with REW it is best to look at signal decay with long enough time window (use Decay, CSD or Spectrum window).

NeoB is same speaker with rear tweeter added. On axis is not same but look at how treble decay vs. on-axis changes! Measured almost 5 years ago, published also in my signature thread.
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