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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:15 PM   #11
bushmeister is offline bushmeister
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Originally Posted by papasteack View Post
Really interesting, thanks a lot for all the information given here (and even before...).


I would be really interested seeing some REW dual tone intermodulation distortion measurement between the 2 ways VS 4 ways at frequencies around your 2 way crossover. Should it be a key ?

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I agree - this could be some of it -but horn loaded speakers are renowned for reducing IM due to the better air coupling and therefore lower cone travel!?
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:25 PM   #12
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
But note the much flatter direct and off axis response from the M2. The Salon does have evidence of the 'bbc dip'.



what does the wall behind the listening seat look like treatment wise?
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:28 PM   #13
papasteack is offline papasteack  France
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Revels Vs M2, 4 ways Vs 2 ways again... ^^

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Originally Posted by bushmeister View Post
I agree - this could be some of it -but horn loaded speakers are renowned for reducing IM due to the better air coupling and therefore lower cone travel!?
But i suspect never as much as more ways (?). Neumann in previous link show a example of about -10/-15 db reduction adding a way.

Last edited by papasteack; 6th November 2018 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:47 PM   #14
bushmeister is offline bushmeister
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But note the much flatter direct and off axis response from the M2. The Salon does have evidence of the 'bbc dip'.



what does the wall behind the listening seat look like treatment wise?
High diffraction - almost floor to ceiling bookshelves, etc. some bass trapping in corners.

You right right about the 'dip' - I bet that is the LR4 TM crossover affecting the power response.

If so, and this does subjectively improve sound quality, then why fight it?
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:58 PM   #15
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
ok the rear wall should be just what the horns need to create the diffusion required. And yes at the end of the day if it sounds good no point trying to fight it. But would be interesting to DSP a shallow dip into the synergies



I should note at this point I have a vested interest in trying to unpick this. I've been tempted to try something similar once I'm moved into a bigger place and brood 2 are bigger, but always wondered about the fact that, if you can get down to 500Hz with one driver do you lose anything going to a straight 2 way with say a 12" bass unit below. Effectively you could get most of the synergy goodness (bar the packaging advantages) for a lot less work.
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Old 6th November 2018, 01:06 PM   #16
bushmeister is offline bushmeister
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
ok the rear wall should be just what the horns need to create the diffusion required. And yes at the end of the day if it sounds good no point trying to fight it. But would be interesting to DSP a shallow dip into the synergies



I should note at this point I have a vested interest in trying to unpick this. I've been tempted to try something similar once I'm moved into a bigger place and brood 2 are bigger, but always wondered about the fact that, if you can get down to 500Hz with one driver do you lose anything going to a straight 2 way with say a 12" bass unit below. Effectively you could get most of the synergy goodness (bar the packaging advantages) for a lot less work.
I see!! I can't blame you I too thought this was going to be the best speaker I could possibly build so was disappointed that we all prefer the 'normal speaker' - I can have a play - I should be honest and say that I kinda did this already - we did the tests first off as they were originally voiced- then I spent ages getting the same frequency response in the listening window for both sets of speakers - this involved a fair bit of manipulation with the synergies as they excited different modes etc. So the on axis and + - 20 degree ish windows were very similar. I will try putting a dip in though - as obviously power responses were not matched.

However, it wasn't just the soundstage that was different, envelopment was different as was detail retrieval, and the 'realism' (whatever that is!). So I don't think this is just frequency response or dispersion dependent - I also think the drivers themselves contributed to the outcome (something I have not really subscribed to before).
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Old 6th November 2018, 01:55 PM   #17
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
I wouldn't be disappointed. I suspect second best in the house is still rather good! I've not heard the volt midrange but have audioned the ATC 3" and still remember how impressed I was with them.
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:33 PM   #18
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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My personal experience is similar to bushmeister! I have heard many highly directive speakers like large synergys and 15" coaxials, but I prefer the sound that good low-directivity multiway speakers give in a normal living room. All of these have been well recognized and well-measuring speakers with low distortion.

I have measured sound of many speakers in many different rooms, and it is astonishing, that RT30 time is usually longest around 2-3kHz (except for low bass). This might be one reason why bbc-dip sounds good!

My sound preference comes from listening to acoustic live performances and I am rather critical of the timbre of piano, ac. guitar, violin etc. but not interested in sharp imaging. I understand that many people like sharp imaging which reveals all tricks done in recording and mixing studio for pop and similar "born in studio" music.

I have read the thread M2 vs. Revel Salon too, and isn't it funny that Toole said that he still has Salon2's at home, because he likes the sound so much!

Listening and enjoying music is the main goal for hifi speakers, not certain "ideal" technical performance!
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:40 PM   #19
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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@bushmeister, both great projects and a comparison. Thanks for posting them.
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:43 PM   #20
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.
Like I said, the M2 and Salon have different target markets. They are likely to have been voiced differently because of that. Which is 'right' I am not qualified to say .


And anyway, what do I know I use dipole ribbons!
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