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1.4" or 2" throat large constant directivity horns you can actually buy!
1.4" or 2" throat large constant directivity horns you can actually buy!
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Old 9th November 2018, 08:23 AM   #81
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
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1.4" or 2" throat large constant directivity horns you can actually buy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
I don't get the attraction to the 2344 and 2342 horns.
The peaks and dips probably caused by the slot have to be resonances that would show show up on a waterfall plot.

2342 response
JBL2342 Bi-Radial Horn @ AmpsLab

2344
2344
Poor drivers and lack of EQ. But the first link looks like having incorrect measurements. I wouldn't trust those.
JBL 2342 Bi-Radial Horn ReVisited

Take also note that the measurements posted of the 2344A horn uses much high resolution graphs compared to what's used today. You can get almost anything to look great with low resolution graphs.

Besides, a worse polar usually has much more influence on the sound compared to +/-2 dB abberation in the freq. response.

But either way, this isn't a problem with the combination of a modern driver and DSP.

Last edited by Omholt; 9th November 2018 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 9th November 2018, 12:03 PM   #82
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchba View Post
...Chris, thanks for the recommendation on the adaptor, I wonder if it would adversely affect the response? I like your idea of a K-402 like waveguide mold.
It's the best adapter that I've seen for 1.5"-2", but of course the internal taper rate of whatever driver you choose to mate with it is a factor in its performance. Right now, there is no such thing as a K-402 1.5" throat horn, but as I stated, it would be very straightforward to produce one using a mold.

There was some effort in years past to improve upon this adapter to make it shorter. IIRC, no shorter developmental adapters had the polars vs. frequency and low HOM generation as the one supplied by TAD.

Note that I've been using those adapters on my TD-4002s for over a decade. I'm not going to give those up anytime soon.

Chris
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Old 9th November 2018, 12:16 PM   #83
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kipman725 View Post
use the system outdoors sometimes and in much larger than domestic spaces so controlled directivity as low as possible is desirable.
I think avoiding reflections is more difficult in smaller rooms.
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Old 9th November 2018, 02:48 PM   #84
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
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1.4" or 2" throat large constant directivity horns you can actually buy!
Here's an on-axis comparison between the M2 and 2344A horns without any EQ. A challenge of comparing is how the data are presented and I don't how how the M2 was measured. The M2 graph is with 21 db/decade. The 2344A graph is with 30 db/decade, which is more revealing. However, the 2344A response is shown with 12 dB oct. smoothing. The M2 graph may have no smoothing, but I'm not sure. The M2 measurements are from the german magazine Sound & Recording.

2017 M2 horn (blue curve):
1.4" or 2" throat large constant directivity horns you can actually buy!-t_jblm2-eq-jpg

1981 2344A horn:
1.4" or 2" throat large constant directivity horns you can actually buy!-freq-response-impedance-jpg

There really isn't much difference. Between 1KHz and 5KHz the M2 is somewhat flatter. Above 9KHz the 2344A bi-radial horn looks more even, but probably only because of a more smoothed graph. Obviously they use different drivers that may contribute.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg T_JBLM2-without EQ.jpg (34.9 KB, 362 views)
File Type: jpg freq response and impedance.jpg (210.2 KB, 373 views)
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Old 9th November 2018, 06:04 PM   #85
mitchba is online now mitchba  Canada
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Thanks @Chris. I hope you make progress with the mold.

Omholt, thanks for the info. I have used several older JBL biradials over the years and I don't remember any of them sounding as good as the 2384 or some of these others from Brandon's driver vault measurements: Horns and Waveguides - drivervault

Especially the polars on the QSC QSC PL-000446-GP - drivervault Best waveguide I have heard to date, but it is a 1" and won't go low enough with a 15" in a two way...

Thanks for the link to Kenrick Sound - I could spend a week there listening! When I still was recording/mixing sound, one studio control room had the JBL 4425 with the baby butt cheeks. I really liked those and did look into the 4430/35's but could not find a pair anywhere near where I lived.
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Old 9th November 2018, 06:28 PM   #86
Robh3606 is offline Robh3606  United States
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Here is a measurement of the M2 horn using a JBL 476Mg The black is no network Red is with.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 200-20K SPL 476Mg on M2.JPG (210.0 KB, 291 views)
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Last edited by Robh3606; 9th November 2018 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10th November 2018, 02:28 AM   #87
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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dsp filter or passive on the m2 ?

I've been curious how it can be better (less reflections) than the 100 x 100 pt waveguide, especially the newer one...........
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Old 10th November 2018, 04:24 PM   #88
Robh3606 is offline Robh3606  United States
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Hello

That's a passive network on the M2 It's a nice waveguide and not hard to work with.

Rob
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Old 10th November 2018, 06:02 PM   #89
Robh3606 is offline Robh3606  United States
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Here is a waterfall for the M2 It's pretty clean with not much hash up top I also posted a PTH1010 waterfall same driver

Rob
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File Type: jpg M2 Waterfall.jpg (217.1 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg CSD of 476Mg.jpg (212.6 KB, 57 views)
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Last edited by Robh3606; 10th November 2018 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 10th November 2018, 07:04 PM   #90
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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Wow, thank you, nice graphs.

Is that the newer pt h1010hf-1 ?
The 1 version is used in the am5212/00 and 7212/00.
Like the original without the bumps in the pth1010hf throat.

JBL 442730-001 PTH1010HF-1 Waveguide - Speaker Exchange
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File Type: jpg JBL_442730-001-2.jpg (108.3 KB, 78 views)
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