Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

JBL PT 100x100 waveguides, any experience? MPro?
JBL PT 100x100 waveguides, any experience? MPro?
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th April 2019, 04:30 AM   #151
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
diyAudio Member
 
norman bates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: iowa
Quote:
Originally Posted by DualTriode View Post

My impression is that Diana Krall vocal and piano is much more real with a cone midrange in the speaker stack.
Meaning a 3-way ?

I bet you would get a kick out of horn loaded mids, but they get big.

Yea, i've looked close at their stuff, especially waveguides, seeing how horn loaded domes seem to be best now, very reflection free. I wish they'd wrap horn mouth with felt or foam even, but whatever. Genlec, behringer truth, but small 8" 2-way that would get lost in my room, especially cranking a movie.

I've loved double 15s crossing @750hz (f3 near 30hz, shorting rings), but my setup is better except for sheer slam (that I miss).

I'm thinking double 12 (delta pro 12a) crossing 1.2khz to either my pt or the newer pt waveguide. It would get the tweet around ear level and should thump good, having a lower f3 than my current qts .3 and fs 50hz making f9 near fs. Bass knob UP !!!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2019, 06:41 AM   #152
DualTriode is offline DualTriode  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
Well if you include the passive network that is part of the design that when you put between the amp and the driver just makes them all kinda go away?

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/M2_...ech_manual.pdf

Rob
I agree that passive XO’s and EQ can do a lot to compensate for primary resonance. Make it completely go away I doubt that? The impedance peaks will still ring, just not as loud.

I think that the D2 CD was carefully crafted and tuned to largely eliminate diaphragm breakup of the upper audio band. Two smaller diaphragms are much more breakup immune than a single larger one. The D2 CD does not have any diaphragm breakup that needs fixing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DualTriode View Post
Then and now the passive XO’s and equalization is crafted to work with 2-way monitors with CD / waveguide impedance peaks included in the passband.
Thanks Rob and Props to you for all your work with passive networks. I know that at a certain point we call a project good, screw the back panel on the cabinet and listen to the music.

Tomorrow I will start over again and do a frequency sweep looking for phase shift. I guess a monkey brain with toys.

Thanks DT
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2019, 06:59 AM   #153
DualTriode is offline DualTriode  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
Meaning a 3-way ?

I bet you would get a kick out of horn loaded mids, but they get big.
Norman,

You are designing bigger than me.

We are selling / downsizing the house. The HT is going going gone.

My project is a pair of main monitors in the 3 to 4 cubic foot range and a couple of subs for end tables.

Yes 3 ways. I have been trying out 2108's, 2123’s and 2119’s for the mid-range. I think that the 8 inch 2119’s are winning out with the higher XO frequency, controlled directivity and size. I am trying to screw the back panel on this project and call it good.

Thanks DT
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2019, 05:16 PM   #154
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
diyAudio Member
 
norman bates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: iowa
I understand.

I have 4x12" ppsl subs and 2 x double 15's tuned near f3 27hz, banished to the storage room.

There can be something said for a nice looking setup when it is in the main room.

Big boxes and lots of furniture make a room look small.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2019, 12:08 AM   #155
DualTriode is offline DualTriode  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Hello All,

I have had a little inertia getting started on the exam of the D2 / M2 CD waveguide. I looked around locally to find a shop that would install the metal thread inserts; they are all too busy making money doing less custom things. So I went to Amazon and ordered #10 Heilcoil metal thread inserts for the M2 waveguide to install the CD attachment flange. The Helicoil thread inserts were an easy install. A drill bit was not required. I just taped the existing holes in the waveguide with the tap that is provided in the Helicoil kit.

Going in I have the impression that the “revolutionary” M2 performance is largely attributable to software and Digital Signal Processing not just the new technology drivers. “The M2 contains no internal crossover network; it must be used with BSS Omnidrive HD Digital Signature processing to provide proper integration of the speaker’s low-frequency and high-frequency transducers.” * The RC network inside the M2 is a high pass filter / attenuator to block low frequencies that would damage the expensive D2 CD’s. The DSP XO’s operate above the single pole high pass protection filter cutoff frequency.

* https://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttach...anual_RevA.pdf top of page number 4

I have the D2 CD’s attached to the M2 waveguides and sitting on top of the speaker stacks in place of the JBL 4342 80’s vintage waveguides. These D2 / M2 waveguides play a little bigger, 120 degrees H X 100 degrees V, than the older waveguides. These speakers are equalized with a Rane Real Time Analyzer and 30 band equalizer. The speakers are tri-amped with active line level XO’s. This is old school, no DSP yet. No capacitors, inductors or resistors are installed between the amplifier outputs and the driver inputs.

The 30 band equalizer was set flat, 40 to 20KHz, recorded the position of the band sliders then set up a spread sheet and calculated new band slider positions to set the balance tilting down 1 dB per octave. The bass sliders went up a little the high frequencies went down a little and the sliders in the center did not move much.

Rob and All,
If there are resonate peaks in the M2 waveguide output they disappear, I do not hear them In a week or so I will put in ear plugs and do some plots.

The 100 degree ish controlled dispersion in my listening space sounds really good to my ears and brain.

Thanks DT
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2019, 01:34 AM   #156
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
diyAudio Member
 
norman bates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: iowa
And what are the crossover points of that funky d2 ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2019, 04:23 AM   #157
DualTriode is offline DualTriode  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
And what are the crossover points of that funky d2 ?
Sub < 60Hz M&K double 12inch
Woofer 40Hz to 400Hz Jbl2204H
Mid 400Hz to 2000Hz JBL 2119H
Tweeter 2000Hz to 20KHz JBL D2 CD / M2 waveguide

Active crossover Rane AC23S 24dB LR slopes

D2 CD and M2 waveguide are the real deal.

Last edited by DualTriode; 27th April 2019 at 04:24 AM. Reason: real deal
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2019, 07:00 AM   #158
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
diyAudio Member
 
norman bates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: iowa
Ah, i don't know much about it, short of it seems like a dual ring radiator.

O.o m&k, nice.
Nice setup.

Diffraction slot.
Causes diffraction, breaks up wavefront.

I can't see how it is cleaner (reflections) than os horn, or even either pt horns.

Last edited by norman bates; 27th April 2019 at 07:20 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2019, 01:37 PM   #159
LewinskiH01 is offline LewinskiH01  Argentina
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Buenos Aires
Quote:
Originally Posted by DualTriode View Post
Sub < 60Hz M&K double 12inch
Woofer 40Hz to 400Hz Jbl2204H
Mid 400Hz to 2000Hz JBL 2119H
Tweeter 2000Hz to 20KHz JBL D2 CD / M2 waveguide

Active crossover Rane AC23S 24dB LR slopes

D2 CD and M2 waveguide are the real deal.
Not so different a setup to what I'm after. Are you using the 2119H as midrange because you had it or you purchased it for this project? I'm looking into 8" with the same xo points as you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2019, 04:06 PM   #160
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
mitchba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunshine Coast
Hi DT looking forward to your D2/M2 measurements. For the JBL M2, the XO to the D2 is just under 800 Hz. The BSS device provides the XO and a bunch of eq that you can see user pos has reversed engineered and can be applied using different tech than the BSS: JBL M2 crossover - Google Docs

Some folks have used Audiolense software DSP with the M2 using digital XO with good results: JBL M2 Audiolense Digital Crossovers w/Subs | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

That D2 is a very nice CD. I had a BMS 4540nd ring radiator on a QSC waveguide and remembering it as the nicest CD top end I have heard. The D2 should even be better with the capability to go lower...

I also run a triamp setup and would recommend using protection capacitor on your D2, just in case... http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...4&d=1295365145
  Reply With Quote

Reply


JBL PT 100x100 waveguides, any experience? MPro?Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: MCM waveguides Eric89GXL Swap Meet 0 18th February 2009 02:50 PM
FS: DDS 1-90 ENG Waveguides jeff mai Swap Meet 1 27th January 2007 02:08 AM
Waveguides ralphs99 Multi-Way 18 11th September 2006 06:56 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:57 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki