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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Electrolytic bipolar capacitors in passive crossover?
Electrolytic bipolar capacitors in passive crossover?
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Old 3rd November 2018, 11:53 PM   #21
sonyzz is offline sonyzz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
Sorry if I sounded offhand. I don't think your questions are stupid. You are knowledgeable about some factors that may be important, but also should be aware of the full picture.

Sometimes making changes produce such minor differences that the task is not worthwhile. However, this is diyaudio and you can achieve satisfaction through experimentation.

I could easily tell you what you seem to want to hear - i.e. replace all the electrolytic capacitors with polypropylenes and replace all internal wiring with the thickest and most conductive you can find. However, I don't think you would benefit much if I did so.
actually that ofc audio cable from konig (good company btw bought cat 6 shielded cable from them) is 0.4mm and the one inside speaker is 0.5mm so it will be thinner thats why i asked will it cause a problem, also i wanted to use 0.4mm ofc for mid's and high's and 0.75mm ofc for dual voice coil sub, but first my plan is to cover all plastic walls (where is space) with polyfill to make it like actual speaker box where all walls are covered with polyfill, unlike one sheet they put inside it might same, it might make sound better for sub, since mids are enclosed in separate compartments and tweeters are enclosed by design, what i am thinking is to achieve full potential of amplifier to the speakers with less resistance in the way since i mainly use speaker on battery and i dont use it while its charging, also i dont throw away stock parts like wires or capacitors in case my ''mods'' make sound worse i'll put back ''stock'' parts and forget about ''modding'' it since i was told in some forums and by person (who helped me with making TDA7293 70w rms amplifier, also IRFP9240 and IRFP240 mosfet 160w rms mono amplifier, a TL072 preamplifier with tone control, and dc protection circuit for speakers) that electrolytic capacitors are bad in audio path

Last edited by sonyzz; 3rd November 2018 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 4th November 2018, 12:08 AM   #22
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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Re your idea to cover the internal walls with polyfill. If your intention is to stop the plastic walls vibrating with the force of the bass notes, then you'd be better off damping the walls with self adhesive sound deadening sheets like the ones you get for car speaker installations.

Damping Mats - Sound Deadening | Car Audio Direct

Since the cabinet is reflex loaded, polyfill should be kept well clear of the internal opening of the L- shaped bass tunnel, so as not to interfere with the air flow. This type of enclosure should not be completely filled with polyfill.
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Old 4th November 2018, 12:23 AM   #23
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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P.S. You can cut the sound deadening sheet into strips that will damp the vibrations of the cabinet while avoiding any obstacles that are in the way. It doesn't have to be applied in a continuous sheet.

You can always put polyfill on top, but it doesn't help much in absorbing bass frequencies anyway. And since your midrange speakers are in their own enclosures, their sound will not be helped by polyfill in the main cabinet.
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Old 4th November 2018, 12:47 AM   #24
sonyzz is offline sonyzz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
Re your idea to cover the internal walls with polyfill. If your intention is to stop the plastic walls vibrating with the force of the bass notes, then you'd be better off damping the walls with self adhesive sound deadening sheets like the ones you get for car speaker installations.

Damping Mats - Sound Deadening | Car Audio Direct

Since the cabinet is reflex loaded, polyfill should be kept well clear of the internal opening of the L- shaped bass tunnel, so as not to interfere with the air flow. This type of enclosure should not be completely filled with polyfill.
this is how it looks with subwoofer speaker taken out Zippyshare.com - IMG_20181018_161736.jpg you can see polyfill sheet below speakers, here is other side of subwoofer speaker and its ''breathing'' hole Zippyshare.com - IMG_20181018_161919.jpg so, the polyfill was above the amplifier, the smps power supply and L shaped port. In between the speaker and L shaped port and covered that subwoofer ''breathing'' hole dunno, why it was like that, that sheet is about 12-15mm thick so, i want to take same thickness sheets and glue them temporary to the walls, not fill whole box with pillow size polyfill The walls do not vibrate that much when its full blast and bass'y song it was before when plastic posts shattered and grill in the front was rattling to bass here look at Zippyshare.com - IMG_20181018_161730.jpg two right plastic posts where screws go from outer side to the inside of second plastic posts below for holding box together - see how they completely missing plastic ''pipe'' shape so what i did is i used superglue to do a surgery for plastic posts putting like 5 pieces of it together, then i Zippyshare.com - IMG_20181023_121900.jpg epoxy glued the nylon washers to prevent the plastic ''pipe'' posts from spreading out again,used more epoxy glue for holding those nylon washers, then used more for anywhere else i see cracked plastic - little plastic posts for holding subwoofer speaker, other side where screws go in to plastic posts was ok like 2 of 14 cracked i used there epoxy putty around them to hold it together and painted with epoxy glue since epoxy putty is clay and some small pieces can fall down when box vibrates so prevent that from happening, now it sounds good like no vibrating plastic, you can feel it but you can't hear it that loud as before. PS. mid's also have polyfill in their chambers https://www44.zippyshare.com/i/yTm74...022_230446.jpg

Last edited by sonyzz; 4th November 2018 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:11 AM   #25
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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Your woofer appears to have what is called a 'ventlated pole'. This allows air to flow around the woofer's voice coil, which helps keep it cool.

The white synthetic wadding is placed close to the rear of the woofer to damp the movement of its cone and help reduce 'boominess'. The type and amount of wadding will have been carefully chosen by the manufacturer - I would hope!
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:18 AM   #26
sonyzz is offline sonyzz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
Your woofer appears to have what is called a 'ventlated pole'. This allows air to flow around the woofer's voice coil, which helps keep it cool.

The white synthetic wadding is placed close to the rear of the woofer to damp the movement of its cone and help reduce 'boominess'. The type and amount of wadding will have been carefully chosen by the manufacturer - I would hope!
so you say me adding more padding to the walls will make it worse? i thought that sheet is blocking most of air from woofer to L shaped vent port... also too bad drivers have none of information other than woofer having JW and parts number and mid's having JW 20W 8ohms and Tweeters JW 10w 8 ohms
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:47 AM   #27
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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That sheet does not stop the air flow towards the port. I think it is there to add some acoustic resistance, which keeps the woofer cone under control and minimises overhang on the bass notes.

Making changes could well make the sound worse, so make sure you can return to the original placing, type and amount of wadding. I don't think putting more absorbent on the walls will do any harm though.

It's quite common for speaker drivers in this type of equipment not to carry much information. The majority of owners aren't expected to be taking the unit apart to have a look at the back of the drivers!
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Old 5th November 2018, 01:09 PM   #28
sonyzz is offline sonyzz  Lithuania
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
That sheet does not stop the air flow towards the port. I think it is there to add some acoustic resistance, which keeps the woofer cone under control and minimises overhang on the bass notes.

Making changes could well make the sound worse, so make sure you can return to the original placing, type and amount of wadding. I don't think putting more absorbent on the walls will do any harm though.

It's quite common for speaker drivers in this type of equipment not to carry much information. The majority of owners aren't expected to be taking the unit apart to have a look at the back of the drivers!
The Nichicon Muse Capacitors arrived and they are tiny compared to yontex in the crossover, for example nichicon 10uf 50v bipolar muse capacitor is 5-7 times smaller than yontex bipolar 10uf 50v on the crossover does it make a difference would test ESR but my ESR meter not arrived yet here is picture of Yontex bipolar caps in crossover Zippyshare.com - IMG_20181030_164603.jpg and here is brand new Nichicon Muse Bipolar electrolytic capacitors Zippyshare.com - IMG_20181105_131606.jpg

Last edited by sonyzz; 5th November 2018 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 5th November 2018, 01:53 PM   #29
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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Nichicon MUSE capacitors come in different types e.g. Fine Gold (FG). Which ones have you obtained?

Electrolytic capacitors just keep getting smaller and better all the time due to advances in materials.

If you'd like bigger caps with low ESR, you should go for polypropylenes like these:

10 fd Monacor MKP Capacitor
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:23 PM   #30
sonyzz is offline sonyzz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
Nichicon MUSE capacitors come in different types e.g. Fine Gold (FG). Which ones have you obtained?

Electrolytic capacitors just keep getting smaller and better all the time due to advances in materials.

If you'd like bigger caps with low ESR, you should go for polypropylenes like these:

10 fd Monacor MKP Capacitor
I just read online and some DIY audio thread that ''muse'' capacitors are for low power audio signal and can't be used for high power audio signal stage such as crossovers, so got myself Nichicon blipolar electrolytics designed for crossovers used this Nichicon Electrolytic Capacitors | Hifi Collective as a guide page and i got these off ebay Nichicon GB & DB Type | Hifi Collective and no worries i'll use Muse capacitors somewhere else i might need in the future, they not going to bin - no way. Off topic but my Asus Xonar STX soundcard in my computer uses Nichicon Fige Gold capacitors - just fun fact

Last edited by sonyzz; 5th November 2018 at 02:27 PM.
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