I am looking for some insight into this design. I heard a pair of these speakers the epigenetic 5 BigE Loudspeakers Home Theater DIY Speaker Kit at a show in Iowa over the weekend. Lots of really nice stuff there . Thanks to all who put in time and effort to make a great show! Iowa 2018 | Midwest Audio Club
So I see the speakers are best used on the wall or near the corners and when I heard them they were on stands out away from walls so they were understandably a bit bass shy. They sounded pleasant and with some reinforcement may be a fun well rounded full sound. I went to their website to read about how they are supposed to work but it got above my understanding fairly quick. Some pretty good claims. I have read some things on transmission lines and while I couldn't design one I at least have a vague understanding of some of the terms used. But the information on these seems to sound more like ideas used in aerodynamics more than sound waves. Help please.
Here is where I found their information down at the bottom of the page. Big E Loudspeakers Technology Partners Would someone be willing to share their thoughts on the design? Thanks.
So I see the speakers are best used on the wall or near the corners and when I heard them they were on stands out away from walls so they were understandably a bit bass shy. They sounded pleasant and with some reinforcement may be a fun well rounded full sound. I went to their website to read about how they are supposed to work but it got above my understanding fairly quick. Some pretty good claims. I have read some things on transmission lines and while I couldn't design one I at least have a vague understanding of some of the terms used. But the information on these seems to sound more like ideas used in aerodynamics more than sound waves. Help please.
Here is where I found their information down at the bottom of the page. Big E Loudspeakers Technology Partners Would someone be willing to share their thoughts on the design? Thanks.
I have only glanced at it but it is laughable nonsense. Vortices are responsible for the unwanted chuffing sound when a port is overdriven and the wanted tones from a flute. The vortical component of the air motion around a moving drive cone is almost wholly incompressible and silent.
The port chuffing sound is created by the speed of a boundary layer increasing to such an extent that the smooth laminar boundary flow starts to become turbulent. This fairly random sound does not follow the input signal and is wholly unwanted distortion.
The tones from a flute come from guiding the velocity gradients from the mouth piece onto a sharp edge to create vortex shedding. For a constant mean velocity in the range that vortex shedding occurs (too soft or too hard and there will be no vortex shedding) the frequency is likely to be fairly pure with only a slight wandering. But blow harder or softer and the tone will change. In order to create a stable pure tone the vortex shedding drives a pipe resonance which has only one fixed frequency. But a loudspeaker does not want a pure tone it wants the sound to follow the input signal.
If the gap in the diagram does create some vortex shedding over some velocity range it will be weak, intermittent and will not follow the velocity of the cone motion. It will be quiet distortion rather than loud signal.
Now it is possible to create a decent speaker by guiding the output from the rear of the cone down passageways, through damping material and using it to augment the output from the front of the cone. It needs to be carefully done following the real laws of physics which doesn't seem likely in this case. If it were the case then you would almost certainly see measurements showing how well it worked rather than pages of technical sounding nonsense making claims but without presenting any evidence.
A couple of other points. A speaker intended to be placed against a wall is usually wide and shallow or has a woofer close to the wall and a midrange a fair distance away from the wall. This is to avoid the reflection off the front wall causing cancellation. Such a speaker would have no "baffle step correction" in a passive crossover and so would not be suitable for use out in the room.
A tweeter that isn't mounted flush with the baffle is an indication that the designer hasn't taken much care with the design or doesn't know what they are doing. It is not a large effect but is something of a tell.
I wanna know what the patented MVW design is all about - or is it just a matter that nobody though to use those exact letters to describe another variation on folded vent / reflex?
As Andy noted, the pronounced recess of baffle and use/placement of small dome tweeter should raise some concerns as to diffraction; and for that matter, the c-t-c spacing seems rather large as well. So a couple of things that might want revisiting on the drawing board.
That said, the pricing for a complete flat pack kit isn’t outrageous.
As Andy noted, the pronounced recess of baffle and use/placement of small dome tweeter should raise some concerns as to diffraction; and for that matter, the c-t-c spacing seems rather large as well. So a couple of things that might want revisiting on the drawing board.
That said, the pricing for a complete flat pack kit isn’t outrageous.
The patent is about marketing. A lot of audiophile snake oil is claimed to be patented and may be in some cases where the boost to the marketing is enough to offset the cost of obtaining a patent. Of course it relies on the non-technical audiophile reader not understanding what a patent is.
The "Theory of Operation" for the MVW design does not describe a folded vent/reflex. It doesn't really describe anything being a collection of random technical sounding words thrown together in a haphazard manner but it does bang on about vorticity as being at the heart of the nonsense. It relies on the non-technical audiophile not knowing what what voriticity is and it's relationship with sound.
The actual operation of the MVW speaker will have little to do with the presented nonsense and it might even be OK although from the little we can see ruling out good is probably safe. It is perhaps more likely to be poor but without evidence it is not possible to say. But would you want to have anything to do with a company that markets speakers in this way?
'Manipulated Vortex Waveguide'.
Of all the gibbering, half-witted... I've just looked at the patent. Several minutes of my life I will never get back. Pseudo-technical babble cobbled together in one of the least convincing fashions I've seen since I last looked at a patent put out by a high-priced audio wire company. Which is the point. Items described in a patent don't have to work in the manner claimed. They merely have to prove to the examiner's satisfaction they are original. Which physically speaking, this isn't, but in the choice of language certainly is, since only a yoghurt would normally cobble some of these phrases together.
Of all the gibbering, half-witted... I've just looked at the patent. Several minutes of my life I will never get back. Pseudo-technical babble cobbled together in one of the least convincing fashions I've seen since I last looked at a patent put out by a high-priced audio wire company. Which is the point. Items described in a patent don't have to work in the manner claimed. They merely have to prove to the examiner's satisfaction they are original. Which physically speaking, this isn't, but in the choice of language certainly is, since only a yoghurt would normally cobble some of these phrases together.
So that manure aside then, Big E Loudspeakers Technology Partners
I think I’d still have concerns about a rather poorly thought out configuration of drivers and that deeply recessed front baffle. Of course, there could also be some magical thinking that with all that’s going on inside the box, such pedestrian concerns are misplaced?
Edit: Creators of Fine Sonic Weaponry - kinda cute, I guess? But that’s gonna be a cramped fit inside that little box to fit even a condensed version of all that folding?
I think I’d still have concerns about a rather poorly thought out configuration of drivers and that deeply recessed front baffle. Of course, there could also be some magical thinking that with all that’s going on inside the box, such pedestrian concerns are misplaced?
Edit: Creators of Fine Sonic Weaponry - kinda cute, I guess? But that’s gonna be a cramped fit inside that little box to fit even a condensed version of all that folding?
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