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Klangfilm spherical wave horn calculator - from round to elliptical
Klangfilm spherical wave horn calculator - from round to elliptical
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Old 23rd October 2018, 06:52 AM   #11
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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Quote:
The 18s XT1464 und much more the Faital Pro LTH142.
Another interesting horn is the one from Ciare. It does also have an elliptical shape but it extends more or less conically in the horizontal plane while its vertical expansion is such that the area grows with a hypex function. I guess it behaves a little like all those (in)famous radial horns regarding radiation pattern but with less diffraction.

Regards

Charles
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Old 23rd October 2018, 08:12 AM   #12
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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This is the distinction Charles. The radial horn that that maintains the area expansion of another horn, vs a radial waveguide that uses the desired profile in a given direction.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 07:20 PM   #13
augerpro is offline augerpro  United States
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Originally Posted by docali View Post
There are two designs that inspired my work. The 18s XT1464 und much more the Faital Pro LTH142. The last one is an elliptical tractix.
Do you know the entrance angle of the Faital Pro? The curves look very nice.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 08:08 PM   #14
docali is offline docali  Germany
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Hi Allen!

There is a space limitation for attachments just below 1MB, so I could not attach the Excel which contains the full calculation/values and curves. if an admins allows me to attach maybe 3MB more things should become clear.

These round horns have drawbacks - no questions. But I am fascinated of the math/construction that is behind the Klangfilm profile. Not easy to understand or obvious on the first view how the profile is constructed and why it closes.

But there are still people who buy these horns from Poland or Jabo (Eckhorn) I would assume that these follow a very similar profile. Btw, setting the stretch factor to 1 calculates the original round profile.

I cannot proof that the elliptical transformation would beam less. But if I look at the Failta Pro and also the Ciare these horns similarly miss the diffraction areas near the throat. I have measured the Faital Pro's imdedance and frequency responses which look very smooth.

There was a question how to produce such an horn. We are in the century of 3D printing. There are even horns which come directly out of printers like the Azzolinas. For this I am searching for suggestions how to transform the xyz coordinates to 3D printer software input files.

In order to let appear the whole profile maybe a little bit clearer please look at the attachment here as snapshot of only one orientation. In my eyes it would be one of the coolest looking horns ever produced with nearly full rollback (the whole on the back side just as large to allow a driver to be mounted).

Klangfilm_elliptical_3.jpg

Last edited by docali; 23rd October 2018 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 08:12 PM   #15
docali is offline docali  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
Do you know the entrance angle of the Faital Pro? The curves look very nice.
Sorry, I do not know it. But these numbers are to some degree questionable for me. For my 18s driver I know from the factory that the opening angle is only a few degs and not a plane wave.
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Old 24th October 2018, 01:10 AM   #16
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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The spherical horn is similar to tractrix/LeCleach but it opens quicker. This family of horns has the benefit of loading well. This is a positive unless you want to run the horn below cutoff, then it can be a negative.

This comes with the effect of constantly widening directivity. This is a positive when you want to make a transition, otherwise it can be a negative. The horn needs free space to follow its curve.

Diffraction happens consistently, which is a positive when you want to shed directivity. This shedding alters the wavefront shape until it reaches behind.

These effects should be looked upon as coincidental in my opinion. Making a choice when to use this type of horn can allow decisions to be made on the priorities.

Last edited by AllenB; 24th October 2018 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 24th October 2018, 06:45 AM   #17
docali is offline docali  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
The spherical horn is similar to tractrix/LeCleach but it opens quicker.
This is not correct. They all are only similar at throat regions. The spherical wave horn (Kugelwellenhorn) is approximately similar to LeCleach from throat to near mouth where they begin to differ while the sperical wave horn approches the closing and finds it's end at 2 * r0. Beyond this it has no mathematical solution. Nothing to say anymore about LeCleah in this forum I believe.

The Tractrix curve was already discovered in the 17th century. And the construction is totally different as the calculation begins at the mouth while the spherical wave horn begins at the throat. I have also programmed the tractrix curve in Excel. Very easy to do that.
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Old 24th October 2018, 08:50 AM   #18
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Yes. I don't believe tractrix is valid as a horn profile in its own right. It was by accident that it was found to work well, but only because of its resemblance. Of course it should be continued all the way around.
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Old 24th October 2018, 09:43 AM   #19
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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Do you know the entrance angle of the Faital Pro? The curves look very nice
I could not find that out so far although I have searched for it as well. But interestingly all published FR measurements of Faital 1.4" drivers are performed on that horn. Although not all 1.4" Faital Drivers have the same exit angle.
The Faital horn looks a little prettier than the XT1464 but I guess it will not load as low as the XT1464. That - and someone from this forum (was it AllenB ?) who also had good experiences - made me go with the XT1464 for my Faital HF146 drivers for my "kitchen loudspeakers".

Regards

Charles
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Old 24th October 2018, 07:58 PM   #20
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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I've seen the dip peak in symetrical horn, like the jbl sp212a, oasr horn but ripples in jbl's pdf.

Post 55
Flattest response between 2000hz - 20 000hz - Page 4

jbl sp212a - Google Search

I've been looking at the pt h1010hf waveguide that some like, there is even a newer one in plastic for under $70 (1.5" jbl). I notice jbl uses a 3khz notch with it. It is square 100 x 100 but looks fairly smooth walled for not being round.

JBL 442730-001 PTH1010HF-1 Waveguide - Speaker Exchange

Older pt 100x100

Something Old with Something New

Last edited by norman bates; 24th October 2018 at 08:12 PM.
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